Using Differential Learning to Improve Shooting in Professional Basketball

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Welcome back to the Transforming Basketball Podcast. We've got a really fascinating episode in store for you today. I'm joined by Felix Engel and Niklas Geske from Germany, and we're going to discuss player perspectives of a differential learning approach. So I think this is a really interesting one for coaches because in my experience, I think one of the biggest barriers holding coaches back from experimenting with some of these ideas is that they think their players won't like it.

And I think this is a fascinating story we have today with Niklas applying a bunch of these ideas in shooting as a professional player in Germany. So we're going to really unpack that and go into the details of what Niklas is doing and what his perspective of this approach was.

But before that, I want to welcome back Felix to the episode. Felix joined me on episode 24 of the podcast. It was a great listen. So Felix, great to have you back.

Yeah, thanks for being back and making this happening, man.

Absolutely. And I want to congratulate you too because you were recently announced as the winner of the Matthias Grote Award for commitments to youth basketball. And I'm delighted to see you know, excellent CLA practitioners like yourself, Felix, being recognized. So many congrats.

Thanks a lot, man.

So I'd love it if you could explain the context a little bit, Felix, of why we're here before I go to Nicholas and introduce Nicholas and kind of what he's doing. You came to me 2 weeks ago with a really interesting proposal to do this podcast.

So could you just explain for the listeners kind of why you reached out and we decided to get on today and record with the 3 of us?

Yeah, for sure. So basically, Niklas and I have a long relationship, and since he's been playing in Bochum now for the last couple of years, the relationship grew a little bit more intense. And especially the last year, I think we had a lot of contact and talked about some ideas, and I told him about some ideas about differential learning in shooting.

And I think it's a special combination with Niklas because He has been playing in the first division here in Germany. He is a professional player and he's becoming a teacher also. And he's writing a master's thesis now about this topic, differential shooting in youth basketball.

And I think it's just so interesting. And on top of that, he's experimenting on his own. So I just had to get him on this podcast. I mean, it just makes a lot of sense, I guess.

Absolutely. I'm glad you did. With that said, Niklas, it's a pleasure to have you on the podcast too, man. Thanks so much for joining us.

Yeah, thanks for having me. First of all, also congratulations to Felix on the award. It's well deserved. Just introducing myself shortly. I'm Niklas. I'm now 29 years old, and this is going to be my 11th year as a professional player. After finishing school, I played 5 years in the first division.

As Felix mentioned, I also was a youth national player, and it's called A2 national team for Germany. It's under 24. And recently, Also played the 3x3 basketball, also part of the national team. And 5 years ago, I stepped down from the first division

to, you know, go to university. And since then, I'm in between second and third division. Gladly moved up 3 years ago with Bochum. So this is the third year again in the second league. And exactly, this is basically my basketball background. And in university, I have a professor.

He's had a seminar with the topic of motor learning and different approaches. And one of them was the differential learning approach. And I really enjoyed the seminar and what I heard about it. Since then, I started exploring different variations myself and also glad to be able to write my master's thesis about this topic.

That's amazing. Well, I'm definitely going to be reading it when you finish it off, Niklas. I think that's so cool. So when you obviously, your first introduction to this was in the seminar. What did you immediately think when you were going through this?

Because obviously what we see in the basketball world traditionally when we see shooting, it's the complete opposite to differential learning. It's kind of repetitive, the same movements over and over again, spot shooting, form shooting, all these things. So what was going through your mind when, you know, you first heard about this idea?

So this gets a little funky because differential learning was the last topic in the seminar. And it started with the dynamic systems approach that he put in. My second subject that I'm studying is math. So professor also know that I play at a high level basketball.

He put me in the dynamic systems group to understand some of the background where it's coming from. And honestly, I was extremely surprised by the results of this really variable random practice and all these ideas of exploring the whole solution space. And it's really like, as you said, the extreme opposite of what I, especially in my first years as a professional, learned because I was getting like 100 3s up before practice, every practice for weeks and months and pre-accounting.

And basically, to be honest, it also works if you just like put in so much time doing that. But sometimes Just looking back at it, it probably didn't trend as much as I would like it to be. So yeah, I was super interested in the outcomes and where the idea came from.

And basically this is how it started.

Amazing. I love that. Felix, can we come to you just for people maybe who aren't familiar with DL? We've obviously— I've unpacked it on previous episodes. We had Francesco Nanni on where we spoke at length about how he's using DL. in Italy, obviously in professional basketball, and I did it on the Reconceptualizing Shooting episode.

But could you just kind of talk us through it, Felix? So, you know, in layman's terms, what is— what are we talking about when we talk about differential shooting?

When we talk about differential shooting, it's just like Niklas said, to self-explore movements. And I think you guys covered a lot of ground already, what benefit— what is beneficial about it, you know. So adding variability when it comes to especially shooting is very effective when we're thinking about movement patterns that maybe are dysfunctional for you.

And if you as a coach want to help the athlete become more adaptable, you might be thinking about, you know, adding more variability in different terms. You know, I think Francesco put it pretty nicely when he said when somebody's shooting with the ball being too short, then maybe it's about a rhythm.

And without telling the athlete what he's maybe missing, you could then instead try to tell him, okay, dip the ball on the ground. This is number 1. Dip the ball on your knees and dip the ball on your chest. So you have 1, 2, 3.

And now what's working for you? What's now functional? And you as a coach, you should be a little bit more observing than putting out all your knowledge out, what you've been reading, what the right technique should be looking like, instead of focusing, yeah, what are you observing?

And especially also, I think with the eyes, we haven't talked about the eyes yet. What is your dominant eye? If you're right-handed and your dominant eye is left, this is a crucial influence on your shooting ability. And you might put the ball above your left eye.

And some coaches maybe think, you know, you should put it right here, you know? So I think observing when it comes to DL, it's very important and being creative.

It's funny, for me, it's the easiest way to say that we don't need to do form shooting. It's the great— it's the best alternative.

And it's—

I know it seems counterintuitive to a lot of coaches, but players can learn so much more when they're put through these different DL exercises. Versus being said, you must shoot this way. So Niklas, let's go now into how you practice. Could you talk a little bit as to, you know, how you applied DL and just really started embracing variability with how you practiced as a professional player?

Yeah, basically this is part that I'm doing in individuals or time that we get of time for shooting and practice. What I started with was finishing. And, you know, there's always back in the days there was like Mike and drills or whatsoever and It's just like finding completely different solutions for finishing at the rim on layups.

So basically I'm starting quite easy usually with, with regular layups, then starting, uh, same hand, same foot. Then I'm starting to, you know, do changing up the rhythm, changing up, um, the footwork, changing up the spin, um, doing a little funky stuff. Also rolling the, the ball off, I would call it wrong fingers, even though there's in differential learning, there is no wrong solution.

Yeah.

But still just like unfamiliar situations also, especially thinking about situations that come up in the game. So usually there's some kind of shot blocking coming towards— if you try to finish at the rim, especially as a guard. So, you know, finishing really with floaters, but also high finishing off the glass, finishing so the ball really hits the glass extremely late and then moving a little bit further away.

Yeah.

And then, you know, experimenting with footwork, also experimenting with footwork in the post, even though I'm a post player, and finishing with unders and, you know, hesitating in the air and just like doing a whole bunch of variations in these finishing situations. And then I also started to introduce it in the time that we get either in individuals to shoot or at the end of our practices to shoot.

And, you know, it's just having maybe like 10, 12, 15 ideas of what I can change up. So Yes. Positions every single time. It doesn't always have to be fast for me, so I try to keep track on the intensity, but also telling the guys that is shooting with me, if I'm not by myself, to change up passes.

Then I'll be changing shot angles pretty much every shot, also changing footwork every shot. And then, you know, it's also shooting in dynamics, so fading to the side, to the front, to the back.

Yeah.

The little step-back shooting. And for me, the way I'm definitely not at the extreme of differential learning, I would say, but just being able to learn in between the differences that I explore in every single shot, it really feels good. It didn't feel good those first few weeks, but, you know, really getting used to it.

And it definitely took time for me also really, really believing in it. I feel like I'm really Adapting to, you know, shooting with different arcs and it's still going well. And shooting in games, shooting in different settings, like with the defender being closer to me.

And I don't really have the trouble of having a defender in front of me because I feel like I adapted to taking the ball a little bit higher and maybe releasing it a little bit quicker and arcing it a little more. And just have this already introduced in my practice.

It gives me a lot of confidence that I can even make these shots and also, you know, even take the decision. There's always a decision. decision side to taking a shot, even like to shoot the ball in those situations and be confident to make them.

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I have a follow-up question on that because I don't know if you can blend it in later, Alex, but Nicholas just recently hit a game-winning shot and this game-winning shot was very unusual because they draw up a play that the last possession he tried to hand it off, but the handoff didn't work.

And he was with the back to the basket, and then he pivoted and shot a mid-range shot out of a, you would say, uncomfortable situation, and it went in. So my question, Niklas, for you is, how much of an impact do you think DL shooting had on you that you were comfortable and adaptable enough to make this shot?

It's a good question. I haven't really thought about it that way. I can just say when I shot the ball, it really felt good, you know, just releasing it even though defender was close. I had like no problem, as I said, you know, getting the ball up a little, little higher than maybe usual, also arcing it a little more, and I just released it and I, I knew there was just maybe half a second left in, in the game, so.

It wasn't like I had a chance to, you know, have— find any other option in there. So it's quick shot out of, you know, turning and knowing there's a big guy in front of me because they switched on just like the entry of the play.

It might really have a big influence, but I haven't even gave it a thought that much, to be honest.

And that's good. It's fascinating because it's like, I think that's the idea behind it. It's the idea is that you're adapting without even knowing it. And I think that's effective DL training. That's, that's exactly what it does. And it's funny because, you know, we always talk about in DL, you know, you're going to shoot in ways you're not going to shoot in the game.

That's kind of how I present it to players. But it's really interesting because there are some situations, especially late clock, when the shots that emerge look eerily similar to some of the DL activities that we actually practice. And I always find that pretty funny.

I saw that a lot last year with my prep team in Italy. A follow-up question is, in Portland, I've got one player on the Rip City team who loves the L. And we go all in and we're pretty out there. I get we're using a WNBA women's ball, a regulation NBA ball, and then an oversized ball.

And we're alternating every rep. And we're doing pretty extreme exercise. Everyone in the gym is looking at us like we changed the rim every few shots. So we're operating, we got like both main baskets and the 2 side baskets. So we got 4 and we are literally just moving around the whole time, always distance range.

And he's doing pretty extreme ones. He's awesome. Like doing ISOs for like a few seconds into a shot, always a different position, doing things like we were struggling with power generation. So we're doing things like couldn't even bend legs, just had to like self-organize in the upper body to shoot.

Then—

Yeah.

Contrasting that between not bending at all and then maximum dip. So we've been playing around the whole time, and then I'm doing all this weird stuff like I'm throwing the balls off the walls so he's receiving them at odd angles, spinning them on the floor, and it's hilarious, Nicholas.

But that's pretty out there. And I think, you know, I don't know, I haven't actually really— I've done DL with a lot of players on the roster, but I'm always very selective with who I would do this with because I feel like they have to be ready for it.

Have you seen, like, have any of your teammates been inquisitive or curious about how you're practicing and maybe try doing it? Or what's the story with that? Because I'm always interested.

As I already said, I guess I'm not at the super extreme on that.

But you're still mixing it up a lot, which for me, I think that's still so different to what they would do.

There's really— there was some funky stuff that I did in the post with, you know, back pivots and shooting fadeaways. out there, and practice was already over when I did that, and the guys were watching a little and cheering me on when they saw that.

It was definitely one of the funny ones. Yeah, besides that, if we're in shooting practice, and just the other day we did shooting in the morning and it was supposed to be contested shooting, easy contest though, and I was shooting off the dribble, and then I did started to do some, some one-leg stuff, and probably the outcome wasn't the best at this time.

And then unfortunately also coach walked in and he gave me a strange look when I missed Quite badly. That was definitely a good one. But also, you know, having having the guys look a little strange here and there. But but most of them also know that I'm you know writing my master thesis about DL, and yeah, maybe are quite familiar that I try some stuff exactly.

But it's also I was talking just also the other day to a couple of my teammates that I feel like having this repetition of hundred, two hundred, three hundred shots, whatever it is. After, I would call it a small amount, like 30, 40 shots, starting to really— at least I start to lose concentration and focus and just be, you know, it's just like getting up the shots because somebody told you to.

Mindless.

From there on, it feels like after 60, 70 shots, it really feels like, okay, I'm going through the motion and I'm not, I'm not getting anything out of it. At least this is the feeling, gut feeling, but it also goes for a lot of other players.

And with the— what I extremely like is, you know, if I change it up, I don't lose focus that quickly. I really have more time that I can be concentrated in practice and, you know, work on things that I would really like to work on.

That's it. Love it. Like, that's actually one of the first things I do when I consult with a pro team is literally say, just make your shooting variable. Just every time change the pass, the pass type, the location. And if you do that instead of spot shooting over time, I think you would see a huge, huge difference.

So on the thesis, Niklas, are you in that? Are you going through the theory and then the practical application, or what's it going to look like?

So the idea from the professor was either to have a look on the biomechanical part of the shooting or outcome. And I decided that I would like to do something on the outcome. And I'm really glad that I can do it with under-16 teams, but at the highest level in Germany.

So I have 3 teams, basically a control group, a repetitive shooting group, and then the differential learning group. And, you know, I had a short meeting with the differential learning that I tried to, you know, explain them what we're trying to do and just give them some theories, some broken down theory for sure with the, with the 14, 15-year-old kids.

But I also told them, I really, I strongly believe in this and I strongly believe it will help. Otherwise I wouldn't be doing it with you guys. And also the coach was, was open to it. Yeah. And so it's basically integrated into the under-16 team's practice.

So it—

Excellent.

Definitely takes some time. It's just 50 shots, but you know, in differential learning it takes some time.

It does, yeah.

And after the first 2 shooting sessions, it was quite chaotic. I would— it was a little strange moving from basket to basket, changing shooting angles and It's kind of tough to understand. We want to make shots extremely high. It doesn't mean like I'm just shooting straight.

So there was for sure some adaption that was needed. Also, coach was kind of like, I'm not really sure if we get the results that you would hope to get. And I was like, yeah, I mean, on the one hand I agree, but on the other hand, there's a quote that I really like.

Yeah.

Um, it's like learning is probably something else than having good results right after practice. Like it's something like those practice results and learning results are not similar. So, um, just for the master thesis to clear it up. So there's a pretest. Um, it was quite hard to really find an accuracy test in basketball jump shooting, which honestly surprised me because we are such an international sport that I thought there might be something reliable, valid to find.

Quickly and easily, but it took me really basically some days, I would call it, to find a shooting test that I was fine with. So I did the pre-test with, with all 3 groups, and happily for me, there are no significant differences between the groups.

So that's fine. And this is going to be my— it's going to be 6 weeks of practice. This is the, the 4th week that we are, we are in. Then there's going to be a post-test, and there's also going to be a retention test.

Fantastic. I think it's amazing because, Niklas, people always say to me they want to see actual research in basketball Behind these ideas. And, you know, it's— it can be very difficult to do that just because of things like the control group, like you said.

So I think it would be very important when it's done, I think we must share this to the world. And we can do that through Transforming. We can do a blog or we'll do another podcast because I think it would be great for people actually just to see the results.

And I think that's really important to help more people kind of transition towards this approach.

Yeah, I mean, it definitely takes still some time until— until it's—

Of course, it's a big project.

But I'll definitely, you know, we'll be open to share the results. And it's also, unfortunately, of course, it's in the methodology. It's not perfect. It's not randomized. It's in a team setting. Yeah, it's not super perfect, but I guess the ideas of what it is, it's really in there.

That's it.

Yeah.

And if people can't wait long enough to get to wait for the thesis to be out, they can just look at Niklas' statistics from last year's shooting percentage and this year. You know, I think this is just— this is also like valid result of, you know, being more adaptable and variable, and your shooting percentages are better than the last year, you know.

That's it. Felix, I want to come back as we wrap up here because something we always talk about, and this is just kind of for the benefit of the listeners, we always talk about when we're using DL, making sure we supplement it with the CLA.

So you told me A few weeks back when we caught up, there was a cool story about a friend of yours who was coaching, I believe, an assistant in the Bundesliga. And without mentioning names, you said that they started doing some of these ideas and the things we believe in at Transforming.

And sure enough, they started— the shooting results completely changed. Could you just talk a little bit about that?

Yeah, next time I'm definitely going to take some money for the advice I gave. No, they are actually in the first place in the second league, and they had low shooting percentages. And then I asked him, how are you guys shooting in practice?

And he said, we're just shooting on air and then without a defender, you know. And then told him, like, look, if you take this very needed information out of the context when it comes to shooting, it has significant influence on the shooting movement, the time the ball is in the air, and other things, you know.

Because Niklas also said shooting is a decision, and if you don't feel like you have— having an opponent changing your rhythm, then you don't know if you're going to take another decision or not. So he is like me when it comes to new ideas that just make sense to him.

He just goes out there and tries it, you know? And he told me, yeah, but I have an ex-EuroLeague player in my team, Felix. I can't tell him that he has to close out every time.

Yeah.

Okay. Then you have 2 decisions. You can do the same thing you've been doing and have low shooting percentages, or you can change it a little bit up and Yeah, the last games were amazing, and he's still sending me clips, you know, from, look, this is what we've been doing in practice and this is what is happening in the game, you know.

I'm just very happy for him and for his team that has been working for him, you know.

That's it.

And I think you see the results immediately using a CLA. I think some people say it takes time, but for me, I just, I think it's so— the practices immediately become so much more specific and intentional that when it's done well, it's just We see improvements immediately.

To add another thing, I also asked the question to other coaches, do you want your practice to be more efficient? Because maybe in a pro setting you have the times that you can shoot more than in youth programs. But when it comes to youth practices, you only have 3 times, maybe 4 times practice, 90 minutes, 120 minutes.

And if we use this time more effectively, having a defender when we do team shooting, you know, Yeah, it's gonna be more efficient when it comes to the game. So it's also about efficiency, you know.

It absolutely is. So guys, I just want to say big thanks for joining today. I think we covered a bunch of topics, but we did take a deep dive into DL. And I think, Nicholas, if you ever want to go into coaching, I think you will be an incredibly successful Bundesliga coach one day.

And I would hire both of you guys immediately if I was a general manager or a sporting director. in the Bundesliga or Pro A club. Guys, thanks so much for joining. I know we'll definitely have you on again at some point, and really excited to follow the thesis.

And good luck for the rest of the season, guys.

Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, thanks for having us, Alex.

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