How Oregon Recruits and Develops Players to the Pros with Mike Mennenga

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Welcome to the Transforming Basketball Podcast. On today's guest, we are joined by the heartbeat of Oregon basketball coach Mike Mennenga. He's been on the Ducks bench for over a decade, helping transition the program into the Big Ten era. A former director of player development turned elite recruiter, he's the guy responsible for finding hidden gems and turning them into NBA talent.

Welcome, Coach Menninger.

Oh my gosh. Thanks so much, George, for that. I need to save a recording of that so I can play that for Mrs. Menninger. You know what I mean? So, but no, I appreciate that. It's been an amazing basketball journey looking back on that path.

And I'm very grateful and thankful to be here at the University of Oregon. There's no question about that.

Yep. And we'll get into it throughout our conversation, but I think the main question, the biggest thing people want to know is like, how do you do it? Like you've produced so much NBA talent for so long now, you know, I think 10+ years.

How do you do it? Wow.

I wish there was just an exact science in regards to it. I think it starts off with just like anything else in any industry, in any job, you know, you got to have a passion for what you do. And I'm passionate about young people taking ownership over their life path and getting into that spot.

And basketball is the mechanism and kind of the centerpiece that we share when we get in relationships like that. So like I said, I wish there was an exact science, as you know, George, whether it's in recruiting, whether it's in player development, whether it's in a game when you're facing an opponent, whether you're the favorite or not the favorite, every situation has their own unique dynamic.

And if you're not passionate about it, you're not going to have the will or the want to, if you will, you know what I mean? To seek out that unique dynamic that's going to be the difference in either pushing this player to be a pro from something or just to be better, to be a starter from a team to get a win.

So it starts there. You know, you got to be passionate about what you're doing.

Are there any habits stay on the players about Like, you know, make sure you do this consistently. You know, are there any things that you're talking to them on a daily basis about in terms of, all right, this is what's been successful for other players.

Maybe it could be successful for you. Let's see if you can work it out. Are there any things like that?

Great question. Great question. Again, like I said, you know, I wouldn't be doing a disservice. I mean, like I said, like every player and opportunity is unique. So there's a unique dynamic there. That separates them from the others. However, you know what I mean?

From a basketball standpoint, I think the number one thing, and this may come out sideways to some people, you know what I mean? And some people I think will get it. You know, it's the level of physicality of elite basketball, whether it's at the Power 4 level, just Division 1 basketball, Division 2, Division 3.

If you want to win a championship or you want to separate yourself and be an all-conference guy, a pro guy, the level of physicality, the level of force within a 40-minute game, a 32-minute game, a 48-minute game that you have to consistently deliver.

You know what I mean? I think it takes a while, especially for a young player, to wrap their head around what goes into all that. Because now all of a sudden, George, we're tapping into not only your skillset and how we train and how we get you ready to perform those skills when you're getting hit.

Now we're talking about building your body up. We're talking about taking care of your body. We're talking about nutrition, that dynamic. So I think the first thing you've got to start dialing in on, if you want to really separate yourself as a player and as a coach, what I'm going to talk about is just the level of physicality that you're going to have to play with and play through.

Yeah, I agree. And it's never more obvious than if you sit courtside. Obviously you get that pleasure every time helping out the head coach as the assistant there. But it's never more prevalent with, like, whenever I'm sitting courtside and I see the game, it's so much different than watching it on League Pass or EuroLeague TV or whatever.

100%, George. I mean, I'm right there with you. Like we just said, we played Oregon State last night and we had Dylan Brooks is in town. The Suns are down playing the Blazers. And I think he's a great example of somebody who's kind of understood that component and really made it work for him.

So to your point, George, I'm the same way. I take advantage of our little geographic location. Every once in a while I go up there to a Blazers game or when our guys Rittown playing them. And I sit as close as I can and just take it in and just kind of reintroduce myself to exactly that, the level of physicality, the level of force you have to play with, play through, play against.

It's something that sometimes I think is lost in the sauce, as you will. You know what I mean? As you think about player development, you know, spend so much time with our ball handling, we spend so much time with our shooting. You know what I mean?

And sometimes I think that stuff Gets overprioritized than just body-on-body contact. Okay, now what are you doing?

I want to rewind a little bit. So could you give us a little brief history on your journey? You started East Coast, worked out there, built your career out there for a while, and now you're a West Coast guy. You've been there for 10+ years.

I would imagine you call it home. How did that all come to happen? And also for the question I have here is you were quoted as saying your former boss, Jim Barron, Saved your basketball lives. What key lessons did you learn from him and throughout that journey?

Wow. Wow. Well, I'm going to try to keep this brief and very, very short for you, everybody. But I grew up in downstate Illinois, central Illinois, son of a junior high coach, high school coach, AAU coach. We were draw play up on the napkin guys.

You know what I mean? And that's how I grew up. 2 older brothers played and just was born into the game. Probably was More talented in baseball, but we love ball, basketball. My dad, we were just into it. And fast forward as I played ball, Vincent's Junior College, Morehead State, and the networking piece I didn't really quite understand at the time and how important that was.

But my dad was into that culture. And I just remember all these lessons he'd teach me. And to this day, it just— big reason why I'm here today is the using basketball and the network around it, the brotherhood, the fellowship around it, not only to grow as a coach, but to also Build a recruiting network, build a coaching network, all these things.

And I had no idea what this was happening as I was coming up. It was beautiful. And long story short, got done with Morehead State, went back home, started coaching at Rantoul High School, whatever. Through my dad's relationships, we got to know the University of Illinois staff really well.

And at that time, there was a GA there by the name of John Giannini. And I don't know if you know Coach G. We developed an amazing relationship and I went my way, he went his way. He became the head coach at Rowan and Meanwhile, I'm coaching and starting to do an AAU at Illinois.

I'm running camps, got players. And about 3 years after that little run at Illinois, he hits me up. This is kind of before cell phones. And he said, hey Mike, I just got the job at the University of Maine. You know, you think you could bring some Illinois guys to Maine?

And we were gone, you know what I mean? A week later we were there. So that's when the journey began. So from the University of Maine with Coach Giannini, to the University of Oregon, now 12th season into it. It's been crazy. And then from that, Maine, you know, George, we, not every player's sitting in their bed at night dreaming about, oh man, man, I'd love to be a Maine Black Bear.

You know what I'm saying? You know, so we had to get real creative with our recruiting and Coach G was like that. But Canadians, they didn't care. You know, they'll go to Maine. And so I started really, really getting active in Canada. And with Coach Sheehan at that time there too, George, think about this.

And the '90s is super fascinating. And I just lucked into all this. You know, New England Prep School Athletic, little people do not know. And then in the late '90s, the hoop hotbed of America was in Maine, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut. That was the New England Prep School Athletic Conference from Maine Central Institute to New Hampton to Bridgeton.

to Winchendon School, St. Thomas More, all these players, it blew my mind. You know, in my backyard in Maine, all these players are starting to come into this part of the country. And obviously now as prep school's taken on a whole incredible dynamic, but that was the foundational piece.

So I'm seeing Coach G work in Canada, get involved with prep schools, and man, we flow. Next thing you know, we turn that around. I go to the University of Buffalo, and that's where my Buffalo journey began, George. I worked at the University of Buffalo for 5 years.

Then I went to Iowa State for 1 year. Think about that. I'm an Illinois guy, made it to the big time.

You know what I mean?

Iowa State, I was so fired up. But that was my first lesson in like real world. I was so lost in just the love of ball and passion for ball and coaching that I didn't even think about there was a business side to it.

You know, at that time I would do it for free. I practically was, you know what I mean? And my move to Iowa State kind of made it like, oh wow, this is official, official, you know? And not to say it wasn't at Buffalo or Maine, but that was a dream move.

And long story short, the coach there got bought out of his contract with a new AD. New AD came in at mid-year, coach and the assistants were out. And I'm thinking, wow, I didn't do anything wrong. You know, we won 20 games. That was reality check for me, George.

And this is where Coach Barron comes into play. And another piece comes in too. So we go back to Buffalo and there I start reconnecting with Toronto and I'm running AAU and I'm coaching high school ball now at Nichols School in Buffalo.

That's where your connection, that Canadian connection comes from, is from that kind of experience being in Maine, having to be creative with the recruiting. In a sense, it was like a constraint that really helped you develop that pipeline from Canada there.

I mean, honestly, George, me getting let go at that time, and I'm sharing this because hopefully young coaches and people, I mean, this is a business side to this too, you know what I mean? And that was my first lesson on that. And that part started straight in the pipeline.

So at that time, Canada was going through a renaissance, George. You know what I mean? I mean, Dylan Brooks was in junior high. Andrew Wiggins was on the way. Tyler Ennis, Dylan Ennis. I mean, it was just a run of players. And I was in the middle of it all.

And that's a whole other podcast. At that time, I was coaching at Nichols School. Jim Barron just got the job at Canisius. And Canisius is like 5 minutes from my house. I'm living in downtown Buffalo. And Coach Barron was at St. Bonaventure. Anybody in the business, probably people who are listening know, Coach Barron is— Yeah.

An amazing basketball person and a Awesome guy to work for, unbelievable to hang out with, whatever you want. Coach Behrendt is the man. I love that guy. Essentially, we had known each other for a while because obviously he recruited those areas. And then when Coach Behrendt got the job too, he hit me about a week later and offered me an opportunity.

And I jumped all over it, George, because he allowed me to be at home. That's another part. Sometimes this game takes you away from home. In my career, I spent 2 years away from home. Without my family, just coaching ball. Look at you, you're in Brazil.

You know what I mean?

Took me— so I jumped all over it and it got me back in. And not only did it get me back in, but Coach Barron taught me so much different that I needed to know to be the guy I am today. So essentially, not only did Coach Barron save me and my career in a crazy way, got me back in and got me back going at the college level, but he also changed and made me a better coach.

And for all intents and purposes, he did save my basketball life.

And you guys had some great couple years there. It's interesting. It's like, you know, people say it's like you're only as good as your last job in this business. So it's like maybe some coaches are listening and they're like, yeah, but you could have got another job.

Then it's like, you know, you get fired midway through a season. How easy, how realistic is that, right? And then to your point, Coach Grant comes in and, you know, offers you a tremendous opportunity that you've made the most of as well. So credit to you.

And then, Jorah, I think just goes like any coach, any great player, you make the people around you better. You know what I mean? That was a big thing when you think about guys like the greats, Kobe to MJ to LeBron, they make the game easier.

They make them better. You know what I mean? And Coach Baron really, really, that probably was his biggest thing. He wasn't a draw play up on the napkin guy. You know what I'm saying? He was about pushing guys, physicality. He was about pushing pace, creating space, and letting guys go.

And little did I know at that time I needed that. Not only did it, that whole thing saved my basketball life from a career standpoint, but from a coach perspective, our game is chaotic. You know, there's a spontaneity to basketball, you know, and it's always going.

Like football, you tackle, boom, play clock, 40 seconds. Okay, we're going to hit the— you know what I mean? And that's what I really grew from Coach Barron. And it really has changed me for the better, the spontaneity. I remember I'd go on the road recruiting and, you know, is he, can he shoot?

Oh yeah, all the basics, right? But he'd always be like, is he spontaneous? Is he spontaneous? And I really put a lot of thought in that. And to this day, that plays a lot into my mind when I'm watching the game, watching the player, what have you.

So let's talk about that. Obviously elite recruiter, you know, your resume speaks for itself. When you're watching, when you're looking for that, you know, can he shoot? Can he drive? Is he spontaneous? What else are you looking for? And what does that mean to be spontaneous if you had to describe it?

Yeah, that's a great question. So just think about the 2 words that we've talked about so far that outside of skillset and stuff like that is physicality and spontaneity. And I think when you think about those 2 words, whether you're evaluating a player or you're evaluating your own team or what have you, the thing that connects the 2 all of a sudden now is a word I use all the time around here is motor.

You know, all the elite players have got a motor. They're able to get to the next thing, whatever just happened, whether it's a 2-hand dunk in transition off a steal or a silly turnover. The next reaction is usually the same for an elite player.

They're getting after it. There ain't no celebration. There ain't no head down. There's a motor to make the next play, to surmount the momentum off a run-out dunk, or to get the ball back because I just let my guys down. I screwed up.

You know, I think there's a certain talent quotient. Sure. You know, I think that's where spontaneity is definitely touched on when you think about talent. You got to have some talent probably to be spontaneous, you know? So there is a talent quotient when it comes to recruiting, especially when you're a place like Oregon.

You got to be able to go. But now, as you dig deeper, now you start really looking at the physicality, the motor, the passion that, you know, is he winning? Is he trying to win the game? Or is he just trying to put up some numbers?

So those little intangible elements, I really think is where championships are won and big games are decided.

No, absolutely. I think the effort, being able to move on to the next play and just forget about what happened instantly in the game of basketball, I think is an overlooked skill because to your point, if you're dwelling on that, you know, if you missed a shot, then you miss another shot on the next offensive possession.

It's almost like those 2 misses in a row compounds. But if you have that mindset where it's just behind you, then it doesn't really matter because you could miss 2 shots in a row, 3 shots in a row, and then get really down.

Whereas you could miss one in the first, second, and third and have a completely different mindset to it. But the fact remains that in the game of basketball, the dynamic, the spontaneous game that it is, it's going to happen when you're going to miss 3 shots in a row.

So you do have to just next play mentality and you can't think about it.

100%, George. And I think another element, I think basketball makes basketball very unique as we look into these little aspects of it that you may not beyond physical skillset, is spontaneity, physicality, is that we're all out in the open. If somebody gets bad body language, it's contagious to the other team and it's contagious to your teammates.

You know what I mean? So I think that's why great players, when you think about the Kobes, the MJs, the LeBrons, they were so You know, they were very outward emotional communicators with their guys, whether they were at home up by 20 or down 10 with 2 minutes to go on the road.

You know what I mean? There's a certain emotional piece that in basketball that's there, where in football there's a helmet, there's a uniform, you're in the game maybe for 2 or 3 plays, you're out of the game for 5 or 7, 8, 10 minutes.

Now you're back in the game. And I can see maybe in Brazil where you're at, George, why people love soccer. There's, it's emotional.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? It's going back and forth. There's so much at play there. You know, so when you think about those spaces, you're out there, the bad body language, you know what I mean? My reaction also can influence the pendulum negatively or positively.

Body language is huge. So I want to move on. When a freshman arrives or, you know, a new player now with the transfer portal, how do you assess their real development needs versus what you think or versus what they think they need? Excuse me.

Then how do you begin implementing this plan, especially with the logistics of all the traveling that you do being where you are in the country?

Wow. First of all, just knock the easy one. The travel is not an issue. You know what I mean? We have chosen Oregon to just, you know, we don't even recognize it. They take care of us at Oregon. They give us an appointment.

We're at the spots. You know what I mean? No issue. It's different recruiting now, George. You know what I mean? And we're up here. So recruiting, it does change, but As far as incoming freshmen, not to repeat myself, but back to the physicality, back to the force, back to that space, I think the initial part is when a kid comes in here, obviously he's got an elite talent.

There's an extra dimension to him. So we want to develop that extra dimension while at the same time not lose that confidence, grow the confidence, But at the same time, develop a mindset where I got to look in the mirror and be like, I got to get better.

And the number one space for any freshman or any rookie or any young buck to get better at is taking care of your body. Am I in the most elite physical condition I could be in? You know what I mean? Back to the physicality, back to the force.

And this comes down to whether your guard getting hung up on screens all the time, hard to win with a guard that gets hung up on screens all the time. Are you a forward or a wing that can't win a one-on-one defensive battle?

Hard to win games when your 3s and 4s aren't winning one-on-one defensive battles. I've had this conversation a lot over the last couple months, you know, with some guys, you know, when we're recruiting, when we're evaluating, are we as college coaches, you know, that's my role now, gets confused sometimes.

Are we recruiting future pros? Is he a pro? Oh, he's a pro. He's a pro. That guy's a pro. At the end of the day, my job is to win a game. Does he win me a game? Then maybe he's a pro. So I'm really, really careful how we throw that around because at the end of the day, my job here is to develop guys to win a basketball game.

So again, when you drill down to it, when you're an incoming freshman, the level of physicality, the force, the conditioning, that's first and paramount when they come in week 1 in the summer is getting into them. Hey man, You need to figure out how to win a game when you go, you don't make a shot.

Who are you when the ball is not in your hands? I think any young player needs to ask them that. And I think if you're a coach, I think a coach needs to ask all their players for that. Real talk, my man. Like, who are you when you don't have the ball?

What are you doing? Now all of a sudden you allow yourself to get into these spaces about, oh man, you know what? I don't get low enough. My core ain't right enough. I'm not able to like hold my position. I'm getting hung up on screens all the time, coach.

You know what I mean?

I need to do that.

Okay. Well, now all of a sudden the player starts taking ownership over those things. So these questions are very important when freshmen, to your question, to get into, because again, we're more than coaches. We're trying to mentor these young men who have elite talent, have an extra dimension, have something to continue to grow that confidence with some humility, obviously.

Where they take ownership over it. My favorite words, George, at the end of the day, man, and I was surrounded with this, I'm coaching every position in October, November, December, every possession. Hey, do this, do that, whatever. I've been around some really, some great teams and some great players.

My favorite words in February, March, I got it, coach. I got it. Stand over there, coach. Okay, man. All right, Brooks. Peyton, turn me into a cheerleader. Pritchard, turn me into a cheerleader. You turn me into a cheerleader in March, My job is done.

That's in our game. That's when the players go.

You guys at Oregon, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but you've had some, you know, the players have stayed healthy. So I'm just wondering, like, how obviously how much of that is to the kind of time that you're putting into the weight room, getting stronger, working on that physicality.

And then how do you also kind of teach defense, you know, teach the game outside of the weight room on the court, but to improve the conditioning level? As well. So like outside of the weight room, how are you improving the conditioning with the actual basketball?

Great question. You know, I mean, obviously everything that I do from an individual basis, Coach Auman is a Hall of Fame coach for, he allows guys to, he creates space and allows guys to really open up while at the same time holds them accountable.

The simple plays, you know, simple turns, like bend your knees, 2-hand pass, things like that. But at the same time, to your point, George, we're creating space, playing in space, That's a team thing right there. And how we take this on the court from the force and the physicality, and we mirror sports, it's like you got to practice and player develop with pace.

Everything that we do is with pace of play. Even if it's just like a shooting progression, George, we have a 7-shot shooting grid. We'll put 5 minutes on the clock, man. You've got to make 5 in a row without missing 2 in a row from each spot.

And everything's got a— there's a pace. There's a pace to it. There's a little adversity to it. So whether we are in an individual workout or whether we are in a practice format, here at Oregon, we're big on developing and playing with pace, but at the same time, having some accountability.

Like it matters. Like this drill matters. We don't really move to the next thing until we accomplish what we need to get done in this one. So for example, I'll give you like a, back to shooting, George. I may be like, hey man, we're going to do the 7 spots.

We're going to make 5 without missing 2 in a row before we move on to the next spot. And then, and so we're always just kind of developing these little stepping stones. So now players just kind of know, you know, instead of going out there shooting 100 shots, hey, we're going to make 100 threes.

We're going to make 100 threes in the next 5 minutes. Oh, that's a different deal. You know, so there's always got to be a certain, like, accountable pace to play. And I think when you start thinking like that, you know, now all of a sudden the conditioning, the spontaneity, The physicality.

In our style of play here, when we're at our best, we like to press after made baskets and stay into it. So the way our philosophy kind of embraces all those things that we just kind of touched on.

It's interesting because you could make 100 shots, but if you want to make 100 shots in 5 minutes, you're automatically going to be tired. You know, like it's, it's a lot harder to do that in this short amount of time. And I always think that the coolest thing about our game is the shot clock.

The fact that you have to shoot the ball within a certain time, it just makes it so much, you know, it adds so much more to the game. And to your point, I think we spoke about it earlier, it just keeps the game emotional the whole time.

You know, you're always on the go.

100%. I mean, fatigue is a part of our game, George. Getting tired. Who you are when you're just shooting 100 shots casually in the gym is not who you are when the fire's in your chest with 4 minutes to go in the game.

And you maybe just missed a couple threes. Now you got to knock down a shot. That's you. That's really you. And so, you know, back to your question about, you know, how do you do it at Oregon? How do you take that to the court?

You know, so we're not sitting here rewriting basketball by no means. It's the same drills. It's the same skills. It's just maybe a tweaker here, there with accountability, maybe a tweaker here, there with creating an adverse situation. You know what I mean? That really, really drills down to what we got right here.

You know, what kind of ticker do we really got?

I want to move on a little bit. I don't know if you can speak about this, but I hope you can. The matchup zone. Can you briefly explain this to coaches listening and why it's worked for your program?

Wow. That's a great question. Probably the best analogy I could give it, and I'm sure coaches have heard this before, you know, any— we alluded to baseball here. I was a baseball guy a little bit. So, and I didn't have a 90-mile-an-hour fastball, 100-mile-an-hour fastball.

So our matchup zone, Blue Press, is exactly that. It's just our knuckle curve.

Any—

you think about a great player when they're rolling and they're just having it, they're in rhythm. You know, if you allow a player to have rhythm in basketball, they're going to get you. They're going to get you. So back to the chaotic idea of basketball, we want to create a little controlled chaos.

So our matchup zone really, really allows us to throw a curveball at a team. Our 3/4 court, 1-2-2, that goes back to what we call our blue matchup. The main premise of this thing is to protect the middle, keep the ball on the sidelines philosophically as much as we can.

So we really squeeze the middle. At the same time, we really want to try to identify, okay, who can handle the ball? Who can't handle the ball on the other team? And probably the interesting dynamic that we do a lot of is, and it may, and some coaches may get it, may not get it, but once the ball leaves the point guard's hands, and let's say traditionally it goes back, 4-man takes it out, the ball goes into the 1-man.

We want to get the ball out of the one man's hands, but as soon as it goes back to the floor, we're one-on-one. We want, we focus on making guys who are not used to triggering offense, not bringing the ball up the court.

We want to force the ball into their hand. So it's not necessarily just chaos. We do have that component where it's a run and jump, more of a run and jump component. But primarily we want to force the ball into non-ball handlers' hands for obvious reasons.

Number one, they're not used to it. They may turn it over.

Yeah.

Number 2, they're not transporting the ball as quickly as a point guard or a 2 guard. So they're not getting downhill on you. So now guess what? Now we're burning shot clock. Now we're burning shot clock. Now, whether you're a guard or a 4 man, if you find yourself on the sideline, we'll go get you.

You know what I mean? We'll trap on the sideline. You find yourself in a bad area of the court just before half court or just over half court on the sideline, those are trap zones. We're very aggressive in those spaces. So again, that's our backcourt into our matchup.

We're just trying to burn shot clock. We're trying to get you guys in a space where you got somebody else triggering offense. So when you do cross half court, you may have to spend like another 3 or 4 seconds just to get the ball into your PG's hands just to trigger your action.

And so once that happens now, George, now all of a sudden we're in a 2-3, big hands. That's the number one thing. Big part about a matchup is a— it's kind of an illusion. It's a mirage. You know what I mean? We really, really want to sell the zone look.

Essentially, we're matched up, but we want to get you in your zone offense instead of your motion game. And so once you start getting a team into their zone offense and stand them up a little bit, yeah, it's a little bit more easier to match up with that.

You know what I mean? So right then, all of a sudden, you know, the principalities that some just general principles here of our matchup is the top 2 guys of our matchup, you know, we really want to hold them there as much as we can.

The bottom guys of our matchup, the 3, the 2 on the bottom on the wings are up and they are responsible for corners, both corners. So let's say hypothetically, George, you're on the right bottom of our 2-3. I'm on the left bottom of the 2-3.

All right. For whatever reason, the ball reverses quick and your guard on your side has to take the slot. And now all of a sudden you're forced to take the wing. Meanwhile, they're running somebody to the corner to overload the zone. That would be me.

A big reason for that is because we usually recruit this. We want to have a guy like— right now we got a guy like Nate Biddle who led the Big Ten in shot blocking last year. You know, we want to keep him in the middle of the court as much as we can.

So again, it's kind of a little bit of a hybrid, you know, of a 2-3, but we are matched up. And then the biggest thing I think, George, you know what I mean? And to initially teach it, think about it like this. When the ball's on the top, And you're on the wing, I'm one pass away, and our man, I'm denying you the ball.

In our matchup, my chest is to the ball. So it's 2 different things. That's kind of how we shell it and initially teach it. Deny one pass away, chest to the ball one pass away when we're in our matchup. You know what I mean?

So it's more where we're in the passing lanes and our man, we're really inside-out matched up.

You gave a lot of weight there with the zone. I didn't expect you to go into so much detail. One follow-up question I have is, do you guys change it depending on who you're playing? So the scout, is that how you change it or?

Oh, you know, that's the beautiful thing about it, George. You know what I mean? A lot of the times it's organic, you know, and every team, like the way our 2019 Sweet 16 team ran blue was a little bit different than our 2024 team that ran blue.

Our '19 team was filled with athletes. We were 9 deep. Peyton, Lou King, you know what I mean? We were athletic and long and we were pressing. You know what I mean? Our 2024 team with Follie Dante in the middle, we were down to 6 guys.

So it was more of like a real half-court inside-out. So that's the beautiful thing about the matchup, the way Coach has implemented it. And I give him a lot of credit. He's a genius for it, is just in a sense how a team kind of evolves offensively in a motion game.

Our matchup kind of evolves to the personality of our players in a crazy way, because a big part of it, George, any matchup is communication. How they communicate, how they react to each other, how they listen to each other. So it's interesting. Every year that we've ran it, it's been a little bit different depending on the guys who've been running it.

And then like you coaching it, and obviously the staff coaching it, Is it just a matter of holding the players accountable to communicate, to be at the right spots? What else are you guys doing to teach this?

I think now all of a sudden you're getting down to some just the fundamentals that you teach in any man-to-man defense too. Number one, in any matchup, if you're getting beat off the bounce in a matchup zone or any zone, what else are you going to do?

You know what I mean? So again, it's really reaffirming winning your one-on-one battle with the ball. You got to stay in front of the ball. You can't run a matchup zone or a zone and get beat off the dribble. You know, that's inexcusable.

It's inexcusable in man, but even more so in the zone. And now we're getting into a little bit of the Oregon philosophy as far as like, you know, the length, the physicality, the force. You know, we need guys that want to go rebound the ball.

You know what I mean? Because if we're in a matchup zone, you know, we're going to force a lot of hopefully contested shots, perimeter shots. And so we're going to have to get guys that are going to have to be a little rangier.

And guards that want to stick their nose in there and grab 4 to 5 rebounds a game. So the matchup zone, like I said, it just kind of takes on a personality of its own depending on the team, but the fundamentals and the accountability factors pretty much remain the same.

One more question is, do you find any differences in, you know, the offense getting maybe what they want versus the matchup zone now, especially with the trend in like 3-point shooting going up? Obviously it started in the NBA, but now, you know, college basketball is seeing the same kind of trend where just more and more 3-point shots are being taken.

And now, do you see that, like, now that you guys are playing in that matchup zone, any kind of, all right, maybe we need to play man a little bit more this game so we don't give up these open looks from 3?

You know, I remember last year, you know, the players' era, you know, we played Alabama in the championship game and they just played it at such an incredible pace of play. And you know what Nate's trying to do? He's trying to get to the rim or he's shooting 3s.

And a big part of our matchup, to be honest with you, is you got to get it set. You got to make the basket and you got to get set. You know what I mean? If you're not set, you know, something you think is so basic, right?

And so probably the most important keystone of our whole blue press and matchup is getting it set. And Alabama just did a tremendous job of just not allowing us to kind of get set. So to your point, we were forced to play man that game, you know, and we just couldn't keep up with them.

And so there are teams that get in a groove or get in a space there where you got to man up. And a lot of times that's what it comes down to, right? Me versus you, matchup zone, man-to-man. Hey man, it's me and you.

Now all of a sudden, now you start getting back to the initial questions that you asked me. Usually when it's me versus you, it's not down to skill. It's coming down to physicality, want to, force. How conditioned I am. You're tired. I'm tired.

Ball's there. Who's getting it? That's some good stuff.

No, man, that's great. I appreciate you sharing all that. I know that was a lot. So you gave away some really good things for coaches to pick apart and see what, you know, what they want to add. If they want to add that kind of matchup zone, I find it fascinating, the matchup zone, just because like you can do so much with it.

You know, start in the zone, go to the man. Maybe you go like to your point when the 4-man gets the ball, maybe you go off the first or second dribble. You know, there's just so many things that you can do, maybe when the ball gets to the 45.

So it's like, there's so many different ways when you can match up. There's just a lot of things you can do with it.

Oh my God, George, it was crazy. I thought you could either go back to like trapping the corners, force the ball in the corners. We're auto trapping the corners. We've gotten creative with our ball screen coverages because we keep our big guy in the middle.

Here at Oregon, we're dropping trap. But I think if you ran a true matchup zone that really thinks about Forcing sideline basketball. If you applied that to the half court, you could ice screens in that idea. I think that would be super effective if you had a really good communication there with your top of your zone and the bottom of your zone.

In our matchup zone, I always talk about our guy in the middle being the boss, man. Be the boss, Nate. Be the boss, Dante. Be the boss. You know what I mean? Not Jackson ain't the boss. Peyton ain't the boss. You're in the middle there.

You're the boss. So if you've got a really good boss, you can have fun with different types of ball screen coverages and things like that too.

Absolutely. I want to ask you one quick question before I ask you our last question. I appreciate your time. Every program you've been, the teams have gotten better and better as you've been there. How much of that is new players coming in? So like you're, you know, and the staff's ability to recruit and how much of that is you developing the players?

Continuity is very important, George. You know what I mean? Whether it's a team with players that are carrying over, whether it's coaches like here at Oregon, I've been here for 12 years. Coach has been here for 15. Coach Stubblefield's been here for 12.

Coach Yo. So we, there's continuity that counts, man, on a staff or in the locker room. So that's important. You know, especially in NIL era, I think your most important players are on, your most important recruits are on campus. And you've got to start there.

And I think that filters down to how you develop your players too. You know, now you go take it now to recruiting. And I think I heard Coach Painter say it best when we're recruiting somebody. And I believe it. I'm stealing his stuff here.

You become us. We don't become you. We want players to really want to be here. You become a Duck. The Ducks don't become you. So essentially that Communication has to be very, very, very much solidified by the time the player gets on campus.

And obviously the guys that stay already are buying into that. So now all of a sudden, now you got that foundational culture in there. So retaining players, super important, but at the same time, nothing like new blood, new guys coming in and just kind of bringing in their own energy.

And it brightens up the locker room. It stimulates the team and the program. So I think it's one of the biggest reasons why You know, think about like Coach Altman, he's been doing it for 45 years and he's excelling at such a high level, man.

He loves players, loves ball. And I think sometimes that turnover, you know, sparks you and challenges you for the next thing. And I'm sure Coach Hurley and his staff at UConn feel it coming off those back-to-back championships to do that. You know, the new blood, we're retaining players.

Oh, we've got to be able to do it like this. You know, I think that's quite natural. You know what I mean? We need it both.

Yeah. And I guess those, you know, the new players coming in challenge the players that are already there.

Not to get off that, but seriously, man, the talent level that's out there involved, these young kids, I mean, it's pretty ridiculous. So you look at the freshmen in college basketball now, ridiculous talent.

And now you're getting more European players too. So now it's, you know, even more players coming into college basketball. So it's just, you know, with the NIL, I know there's been a lot of talk about it, but it's You're going to get more and more talent.

At the end of the day, we all just want to see better basketball, right? Like at the end of the day, that's it. We want to see better basketball over and over again. So you're going to be getting that. I think it's awesome.

So Mike, like I said, thank you so much for your time. Very gracious with your time. I really appreciate all that you've had to share here with us and just letting us, you know, know what's going on at Oregon there. You know, obviously an amazing program, lots of history.

They actually, the women's team came to play in London, I think a couple of years. So I got a chance to watch the the women's team play a couple of years back and, you know, just seeing how they walk, everyone had matching shoes, that kind of culture.

So it's, you know, awesome for you to just open up on the men's side now as well. So I want to say thank you. Before I let you get out of here, I want to ask our transformative tip question, something we ask all our guests.

If you could leave coaches with one piece of advice that would instantly improve the quality of their practice environments, what would that be?

Great question, George. I don't take it lightly. I'm going to get back to the ideology of the question posed that I quote, you know, really, really drilling down in everything that you do of who you are, getting your players to value playing the game without the ball.

You know, really, really hammering home the things like whether it's a good screen, whether everybody's doing it now, where there's tracking deflections, just all these little intangible things that are plays that are run. We know as coaches how big those are. I think as coaches, we maybe not do enough to make that even a bigger deal.

So again, as you create your practice plan, as you implement your principles, as you think out how do you want to identify your team, I think first and foremost has got to be the ideology of Man, how tough are we? You know what I mean?

Are we willing to get down and do the things that matter without the ball? You know, so, and I know that that could be real general. That's a whole other podcast. But I think we just have to really, really continue to push the envelope of getting young players to understand that there's, you play pretty much 90% of the game without the ball in your hands.

And man, I love, I love ball. Ball's so fun to play. You know what I mean? There's always something to do. You could be denying, you could be communicating, you could be hitting somebody. You know what I mean? There's always something to do.

And I think as coaches opening up that world to players to seeing all these things that they could do without the ball and how they could impact their individual game, how they can impact their team. And by doing those things, we can have a lot of fun, you know, not only connecting with each other, playing ball together, but probably winning a bunch of games together too.

So at the end of the day, man, basketball is a fellowship game. It's a brotherhood game. It's a game about connecting with each other. Just never losing sight of what that is. The fundamental of being here, as we started the conversation, man, going to the park.

I don't know nobody at the park. I'm going to go hoop at the park. By the time 2 hours later after leaving the park, I swear I'll have 3 or 4 lifelong friends, man. We're hanging out later. You know what I mean? I think it comes back down when you get back to practice and developing players.

Is those little things that connect to your teammates, connect to your locker room. Yeah, shooting, ball handling, assists, all great. You know what I mean? But those other pieces too are so important.

Just to build on that, you know, in a game, the best player, 2-hour game, they're shooting 20 times. So it's like, there's so much more time in 2 hours. Like, what are you saying in the timeouts? You know, like, how is your body language?

What we spoke about earlier. So just to your point, I think that it's super important establishing that culture and really hammering down your identity every chance you get.

100%. And that comes as a coach, man. You got to empower your guys to do that. You got to empower your guys. And that's one thing I love about this generation, George. You know what I mean? I'll give them credit, man. They want to know why.

Why are we doing this? Why? When I was growing up in the '80s, '90s, coach said, stay out of the line. I'm standing on the line. There was no, you're doing it because I told you to do it. You know what I mean?

But now these kids want to know why. And giving them that why, I think is really, really important.

Coaches, we got to be sharp because we got to know why ourselves too.

No doubt.

Thank you so much, mate. This is so gracious of you to take the time. I really appreciate you.

Appreciate you, George.

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