Redefining Youth Basketball Development in Australia with Gerard Hillier

How can we put some rules in place? Like, the easy one for me is the shot clock. Okay, different shot clock every time there's a possession. Players love it, and it's funny how quickly players adjust to that. Let's talk about advantage/disadvantage and some constraints we can put in that can help offense a little bit and put defense at a little bit of a disadvantage.

But that is still far more game relevant than the on-air side of things. It's not about if you win or lose. Like, we want to see those small development gains, growth of ability, growth of understanding. And more importantly, how do your kids handle winning and losing?

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Transforming Basketball Podcast. On today's episode, I have Jared Hillier. Jared works in Melbourne for the Knox Junior Raiders program. He is both a coach, educator, and a pedagogy manager. Jared, welcome to the show. How are you?

George, thanks so much for having me, mate. I'm good. It's a real honor and pleasure to be here, so thank you.

Thank you. Obviously, I just mentioned that they're pedagogy manager. Can you just tell us what that is? Just share with us what that looks like.

Yeah, sure. I think like a lot of the traditional titles, especially within Australia, with things like director of coaching, often the word curriculum is used as well. And for us, with the pedagogy, we're more about how we teach and our philosophy of teaching, especially on the ecodynamics path, not so much what you teach as curriculum.

We wanted the title to reflect that, but hopefully that filters through our program. We're more about how we teach and our philosophies of teaching, not so much a strict set of rules or systems of play.

More so guiding principles, right? And to stick with that, can you share with us how it is you teach? I mean, obviously the interesting thing about your academy or your club, is it in the suburbs of Melbourne? Is that right?

Yeah, we're southeast suburbs of Melbourne.

Yep. So the interesting thing is that it's all ecological dynamics, all CLA. Can you tell us how you started applying that, when you started applying that, and why you kind of took that route?

Yeah, so for me, my journey started a while back. I was very much a traditional coach to start with. I know I was a dribble drive motion guy and always been a full court run and jump and pressure defense in the half court.

But my background is actually in the army, the Australian Army. So I was very much traditional coaching games and training. I first got introduced to like a constraints-led approach at a Basketball Australia National Coaches Conference. Adam Gorman was there and presented, and I fell in love with it.

Like, it was a very basic introduction. It was about a 45-minute to an hour session, and we did some basic exercises of come out with a normal drill. Now, How can you make some changes to the rules to get different desired outcomes? So it was a very layman's term for all of us that were there and an introduction to skill acquisition and constraints-led approach.

And that ignited my journey with a constraints-led approach. Fair to say at that time, I still had no idea what I was doing. I was dabbling in it. There wasn't a lot on social media and in the mainstream about it until a couple of years later.

I was introduced to Alex Sarama through Basketball Immersion. And then from there, it just kept following everything he was doing, learning as much as I could. A number of people published books, reading as much as I could, and it made sense to me.

I really enjoyed using constraints, manipulating drills to get different desired outcomes. Players really enjoyed it. So I've been in a management or a director of coaching type position now for about 15, 16 years. The last 6 years has been heavily, I would say, small-sided games with constraints.

And initially, I didn't really learn the difference, or the true difference, between a small-sided game and a CLA and differential learning a few years into the journey.

And what is that difference to you?

Well, I think a lot of the things I was using, and a lot of the coaches I'm working with now, the small-sided game is the traditional, it's a small slice of the game. It's a small 2v2, 3v3, but there's no constraints, there's no rules to try and get desired behaviors or to try and get certain affordances and opportunities for action to come out.

It's very much, it's just 2v2, play till score or stop, and away we go. So for me, I started playing around with things. At the time, I had a really dominant ball handler, like, she was the best in the league by a long shot.

So in a training environment, she was a handful. So we used to put things like dribble restrictions or non-preferred hand only, or she can't score in the paint, she has to find another way to score. And then post-play. So we started to put some rules and stuff in there, and the players loved it.

Like, the players absolutely loved it. They said, look, you know, they really prefer that method. I was already enjoying it, but I think the player feedback really validated for me, this is where I wanna go, and this is what I have to do.

Not want to do, I have to do it now. And then to get to your point, like, now we're here at Knox Basketball, and I thought, it's a new opportunity, it's a new job, it's a really, really big club. I was really lucky.

I spoke to our CEO, Grant Harrison, before I come on board and said, look, This is who I am, and this is what I'm gonna do. There's some people I work with here, like David Ingham manages the junior representative program, which is 70 teams.

We've worked together in the past and been at a few events, so he knew who I was. So having that conversation with those guys saying, this is who I am, this is what I wanna do, and they're all for it. So for me, I'm like, we have to do this.

I've seen how much the players enjoy it. I've seen how their development sticks. It's a long-term development thing, but I'm all about that. So I think it just makes sense now. And we're one of the biggest clubs in Australia. So I was like, we have to do this on a grand scale.

Yeah. But how would it be for coaches maybe that don't have that kind of people above them don't look at this like, oh yeah, let's go all in on this holistic approach and this long-term view of developing our athletes. Whereas like there's maybe pressure to win games or getting short-term results.

What can you say to coaches that are in that environment versus how it was for your environment and what made it so easy for you to start applying?

Yeah, well, for me, still coming here to Knox was challenging because the 2 coaches I work alongside— so David Ingham manages all the representative teams. Now, he's coached in the National Basketball League, he won a championship in the National Basketball League, he's coached overseas in, you know, Middle East, Asia.

Like, he'd been a high-performance coach in Australia for a long time. So with that season, he was a little bit more experienced in life and older than I am. So very much a traditional mindset initially. And then the other coach I worked with, Craig Simpson, he's a really high-level coach, coached in China for 10 years or so.

So most of his experiences in China, so very, again, traditional approach. And then I come to the club, it's like, hey, let's go CLA, let's go differential learning, ecodynamic. For me, it was a lot of conversations early and talking. Like, I didn't come in straight away and go, look, throw out what we're doing, stop production.

Until we got CLA introduced. There was a lot of coffee catch-ups, a lot of chats courtside. And for me, like, I was educating them on what a constraints-led approach is and what's an affordance. And we were starting from a low base, but at the same time, I was learning a lot from their experiences too, because they've been all around the world and I haven't.

But I think a lot of conversations and helping educate people so they understand, because I think a lot of people get scared or standoffish when they don't know something. So automatically the walls go up. So I don't understand that, so I'm not interested.

So for me, I was like, let's take them along on the journey. Let's have a lot of conversations. Let's workshop. And for me, I think the best thing I did this time around, because this is kind of the 3rd time over 15 years I've implemented a new philosophy at a club, so I'm like, I'll learn a fair bit from the last 2.

And I think for me, the best thing we did was a bridging process. So I spent a lot of time going around and, okay, this is what you're doing with your drill at the moment. It's 3-man weave. Okay, so I turn around and go, hey, look, what are we trying to get out of 3-man weave?

How can we change this to make it more game-like?

What's the intention?

Yeah, yeah, like, you know, people go 5-man weave, but it's 3-on-2 on the way back. I'm like, all right, well, I like the 3-on-2 part, but can we get rid of the weave? Because I've never seen your team weave up the court in a game.

So can we get rid of the fluff and let's— now let's focus on the 3v2. So I might focus on that for a couple weeks, then I'll come back and say, hey, you know, how can we put some rules in place? Like, The easy one for me is the shot clock.

Different shot clock every time there's a possession. Players love it. And it's funny how quickly players adjust to that. As soon as you start counting, everything changes. You've got all these desired outcomes and behaviours. I love it. Okay, now can we manipulate the invisible wall?

I think Alex calls it the invisible wall. Now we're only using half the court. Once you get over half court, now we're only using a quarter of the court. So now we're really restricting the space. There's different behaviours that start to happen, different abilities start to get worked on.

So for me, I did a lot of that with not only the coaches, but the people I worked with and helped bring them along on the journey, but also sent a lot of stuff through to management level, so to speak, to show them what we're doing, how we're doing, and what the outcomes could be.

That's amazing. It really shows that you take the time to not just going in and be like, this is what the science says, this is what we're going to do. Whereas you're meeting people halfway and like you said, learning from them, getting their perspective.

And then having that process of the bridging, you called it the bridging, and having that process. So it's great because it sounds like it was a seamless transition over to the club.

Look, I've been really fortunate. The first club I was at, I was there for about 10 years. And, you know, I owe a lot to 2 coaches I worked with there, a guy, Lucas Allen, another guy, Joe Turner. We were young coaches coming through the ranks together, trying to explore basketball, lots of conversations, lots of trial and error.

But I got a lot of confidence out of that because those guys were really empowering. Like, never once did they ever say, no, you can't do this, this is wrong, this is that. But what we did a lot is we challenged each other.

And I think sometimes having some friends we trust or coaching mentors we trust where you can have robust conversations, I think what that forced me to do is do research. So I've got knowledge, and knowledge is power a lot of the time. So when you have conversations with people, if you've got that knowledge, You can hold good conversation, good robust conversation.

And I think ultimately people respect that. If you're well-researched and you've got a little bit of knowledge in the area, I think people respect and go, okay, well, hey, George knows what he's talking about. He's got a lot of answers, so I believe him.

I'm going to follow him.

And in terms of practical applications, once you got on the court, you spoke about maybe the 2-week period where you're watching a coach and you're like, well, I like the 3-on-2, but how can we add more variability into it? Right? So maybe a variable shot clock on the way back.

the wall, as you spoke about. But in terms of practical applications, what else did you do to apply these?

Yeah, so I spent a lot of time on court with our coaches. A lot of it has been conversation. So when I first got to the club, I watched some of our junior programs. I'd say 80% of it was on air, and either for an hour to 90 minutes depending on how long their training was.

And even some of these teams were getting there 30 minutes early and doing like the old dribble lines where you got like rows of 5 kids and they're just dribbling on the spot. So, George, I was going crazy the first month I was here.

But a lot, a lot of conversations with things like asking coaches, hey, I saw your training, you did a lot of 5-on-0 with your half-court offense, and then at the end of training you scrimmaged against another team and you lost your mind every time the team quote unquote didn't do it right, couldn't pass against pressure.

I'm like, why do you think that is? So I used to put a lot of questions to them. So they'd say they just don't know the fundamentals, or they're just not this. I said, well, I kind of feel like the game's really dynamic.

They're really, really dynamic. And a lot of the things you're coaching hard or yelling at the kids about is because there's defence. There's a defender there. And everything you do prior to this, there's no defender. So how do you think we can overcome that?

So a lot of the practices, I'll jump on court and guide them and try and help them get the answer. George, if a week's gone past and they're still not getting close to the answer, I'm like, hey mate, here's the answer. You need to have defence out there.

Let's talk about advantage, disadvantage, and some constraints we can put in that can help offense a little bit and put defense at a little bit of a disadvantage. But that is still far more game relevant than the on-air side of things. So there's a lot of, I'd say, collaboration.

We're on the court, and I think that's something I'm doing really well this time around. Last time I put some philosophy at a previous club, I was a bit more bullish and forceful, but I think I'm a little bit more mature now and Experience helps us along the journey.

But even things like asking coaches to come up with their own scenarios, say, look, hey, you've listened to me a little bit. What's some changes you'd make to this drill or that drill? And what's the desired outcome? You know, a lot of it's collaboration and workshopping with the coaches.

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Now, back to the rest of the podcast.

I love that. And it's like, it's a simple, you basically said, we're gonna give constraints to the coaches. And you go over there and you're like, what can you do to make them adjust to the defense? Maybe I remember the first practice, one of the first practices we were in with Alex last season.

And it was like, all right, so we're gonna take, we're gonna split the teams up, uh, or the group up into 4, and we're each gonna be at a station and every 3 minutes. We are gonna rotate as players and every 3 minutes you have to get a new drill or a new game based on, like, I think I was doing shooting, for example, or maybe someone was doing passing and it has to be different constraints and you have to be super creative.

And bear in mind, this is the first time I was doing this. And just having those constraints made me, one, to your point, like you put a rule change in the game and the players instantly get it. And it's the same thing I think for coaches, but it's our responsibility as coach educators to put them in those unfamiliar situations.

So just like players, they can kind of adapt. Yeah.

Yeah, I think that's so important too. Like, if I come out and I give, let's say we've got 20 drills that Knox Raiders run, I think that's limiting. I don't think that's the true essence of what we're about. I think helping coaches understand, one, what constraints are, how they can use them, but then I like the conversation around, okay, so I can see the constraints, I've heard you implement the constraints, what are you wanting to see?

Like, what's the end result right now? So you've turned on, you've got a shot clock, or so, a time limit.

Yeah.

And you've said, 2 players from each team aren't allowed to dribble. What are you actually working on? Like, oh, we're not sure, we just thought we'd put that in. I'm like, okay, we're emphasising cutting, screening, like, what are we actually wanting to see?

So now it's helping them, help guide them towards, okay, there are constraints, and there's a number of them, but what does that equal? So by applying, we don't want to just randomly apply them. What are we actually trying to see? What behaviours do we want to see start to emerge?

I think that's been really cool because, Now the coaches are starting to get into it a little bit. There's some random constraints being used, which sometimes you walk past and go, oh my God, I've got to jump on the court and help them.

But the other times, let's just step back. Let's step back and see what unfolds and see how it plays out. Because as a collective, the coaches are far more intelligent and got far more knowledge than I do. So sometimes just stepping back and I learn a bit from them.

But there are some times where we've got to jump on court as well and let the players have a drink break and have a chat to the coach.

Yeah, I think the one thing I heard there, and especially when you talk about the difference between just small-sided games, a games approach, and then the CLA, is the intention. Why are you constraining? What affordance are you trying to make more enticing for the players, trying to get their attention to with this constraint?

So what's the intention? It always goes back to that.

The players— well, it was a couple weeks ago, I actually asked the players, I said, what do you think your coach is trying to Emphasize, or what behaviors, or what are we trying to create here? And one of the kids, he goes, I don't know, but every time I touch the ball, the shot clock's only 4 seconds and everyone else gets 8 seconds.

I said, okay, I said, so what do you think that'd be? He goes, oh, I don't think the coach likes me. I said, really? I said, because every time I speak to him, he speaks really highly of you, tells me you're a really dominant ball handler.

He goes, okay. I said, so do you think maybe he's challenging you a little bit more than the others because you are a more competent ball handler? You should have just seen the kid, the penny just dropped. He's like, oh yeah, I am really good ball handling.

Oh yeah, he is challenging me. Oh, okay, you want— yeah, okay, so I've got a shorter shot clock than everyone else. And I just thought it was a really cool moment, 'cause that was a young kid. I think it was under 14, so he would've been a 12, 13-year-old.

Even they're starting to get it now, which I think is really cool.

I think that's the coolest thing about it, is like the player, when they actually realize like, oh, I have a say in this. Like, and not only do I have a say in this, but my say is— there's a lot of value in what I have to say, because I'm the one that is being directly affected by what's going on.

And in terms of player development, balancing the player development, balancing the team, balancing the program, the coach education, how do you balance all those factors? Trying to win games, trying to make sure the players are still the best players they can be individually and as a group.

And then obviously giving your coaches, like you said, some breathing room to try and figure out the solutions for themselves. Yeah.

So when we had our meeting, we had all the coaches come in just before tryouts, and this is when I had very First arrived, so I was like had one week then tryouts run and we got like 1,200 kids coming in for tryouts.

That's crazy.

We've got an 18-court facility, so it was mayhem, right? It was kids everywhere, coaches everywhere.

An 18-court facility—that's amazing.

Yeah, it was originally six, and I think it was January last year. Might have been a little bit later. They opened up the additional twelve. Wow, that's amazing.

I know I saw Valencia has like twelve or thirteen, and I thought that was amazing. But wow, yeah. Anyways, I digress. Please.

Nah, that's fine. So when we come in, we had coaches meeting, and David, who's the junior representative program manager, we'd met a number of times before this, and we generally said, look, long-term success overrides, you know, short-term success, and our wins will come as a result of our development, right?

So like the short-term stuff, like winning an Under-12s, we're really big on that. Who cares? Who cares if you win an Under-12s? What we would love to see is players leave Our junior program and under 18s being well-rounded, holistically developed players, and can fit into any program they wish to go to.

Hopefully it's our senior professional program, but anywhere. So wherever they go, they can fit in. So we're really big on— we keep saying that on a regular basis— we don't care if you win or lose, you'll be assessed by how your players develop over a 12-month period.

And the other thing, do your players come back? Because that's another big one in junior sports. Like, if your players Aren't enjoying, aren't having fun. One, it's really damn tough to teach kids that aren't having fun. But two, like we can't teach what doesn't come back.

But we need them to come back. So we really echo that. But you still have coaches that every Friday night when we go out and play, like I call them the Friday night Olympics. That's when all our juniors play the representative basketball. And you still have parents that's life or death if they win or lose.

Coaches, they forget about things. But look, we just got to be there to keep reminding them. Okay, look, it's not about if you win or lose. We wanna see those small development gains, growth of ability, growth of understanding. And more importantly, how do your kids handle winning and losing?

That's a really big one. I really get disheartened when I see kids stomping their feet and crying after a loss. And then the parent, hey, that's more important to me than anything. How do we handle that adversity? So look, we do constantly remind people that we're not about win at all costs.

It's about long-term development. Would we like to see our under-18s teams winning a lot of things? I think yes, because that'd be a sign that our development from under-8s all the way through to 18s has been successful. But we know internally that there's a right way to coach kids, in my opinion, and there's a wrong way.

So that's long-term development. But we've got our challenges, George, like every program.

Yeah, and I think that's even more relevant now, what you said about keeping the players, the new kind of rules in college basketball, for example. And I think a lot of programs are kind of looking at ways, how can we Keep our players here, keep them coming back.

Because if you can keep them there, you can keep teaching them and they already know your system. They know your culture. I think that's a great, this holistic approach that you guys have taken is super helpful in your environment with the Knox Raiders junior program, but also for a lot of programs around the world, I think now.

All right. So we spoke a lot about what you've done kind of like maybe behind the sidelines, but now in terms of practical applications, what are some things that coaches can do? From the perspective of improving their practice with some constraints or some games, but also from the perspective of like when you're trying to put a new thing in for the first time, what are some things coaches can do?

Yeah, my biggest advice for people, like practically, is just try. Just give it a go. What's the absolute worst that can happen? Like most of the time your players don't know if the drill was successful or not. They think it's just quote unquote, it's a drill.

So for me, it's like trial and error for me was the biggest learning experience. But I think there's a lot of people that try and research to the nth degree what the CLA is, what differential learning is, ecodynamics. And sometimes we can research, research, research.

I think when you're starting off, just start with any knowledge you do have. And then each day you might read an article, listen to one of the pods, and gain a little bit more knowledge. And as you gain it, go and apply it straight away, because I think applying it straight away helps you understand it a lot quicker.

And then as your knowledge grows, there's more you can teach the kids or teach your players. But I think just start straight away. Practical things, make sure there's a defender and an offensive player in everything you do. That's probably the easiest one for me.

One-on-one at the absolute minimum. Okay, things like the invisible wall, the constraints on space is a really easy one. Variable shot clock on every possession, just change it up. I think that's a really easy one. Scoring system is one I still use a little bit, not as much as I used to initially.

I've kind of weaned off that a little bit over the last 12 months.

It doesn't attract them as much, right? Sometimes. Is that the reason?

Yeah, I just don't think it drives home what we're trying to achieve as well or as quick as other constraints. I got to the point where I'm like, how can I be as efficient as possible? And I started reviewing constraints. Are they working?

I think for me, putting dribble limits on players is another really good one. Shooting restrictions or constraints, especially with like under-12 and under-14 boys. Everyone thinks they're Steph Curry, and God bless Steph Curry because I'm one of his biggest fans, but I'm constantly telling the kids there's a difference between a shooter and a maker.

And we've got a lot of shooters in the program but not a lot of makers. So I might turn around and put some rules in place. Like at the camp, I always say if you airball a 3 at one of our camps, you're going to go for 10 minutes in the 3-point jail.

So you're gonna be in jail And that's more like under 8s, under 10s, under 12s, because it's hilarious. You're coming out of transition, they throw up a 3 and it's just an airball. I'm like, oh man.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was going to say, how important shot selection is. And that's such a low-hanging fruit to just define what a good, great, bad shot is for your team. And I think another constraint that we put, like for certain players, again, like you said, well, under 12s, so the younger kids, but I think it still works with like some older kids as well.

It's just like if they shoot a shot that isn't open shot, for example, isn't an open shot and in their range. Then it's the turnover, basically. So it just incentivizes them to not take bad shots, but to find good shots, find better shots.

Yeah, absolutely. Like, I love it. With the coaching clinics we do, it's probably the range open balance is one of the biggest things I talk about, especially with the under-14s and lower, because I'm like, look, a lot of these kids just physically can't shoot the 3-point shot without drastically changing and contorting their body to try and get power to get it there.

So I'm like, Let's focus on things like range, open, balance. Is it a gold medal shot or not? I think coaches like hearing that because it takes a bit of pressure off them. It's like, oh, okay, I don't have to, you know, I don't have to have a mastered shooting at under-8s.

It's like, no, are you open? Is it a good team shot or is that a selfie shot? And on the other side of the coin, look, if a kid airballs a wide open shot in range and it was a good shot for the team, I'm constantly telling coaches, you've got to be their cheerleader.

You've got to let them know. Good decision. Yeah, great shot. Another constraint, practical one I've been using that I think George is super easy, is each time a team scores at training, we change the size of the ball. So we've got a size 4, 5, 6, 7.

Anytime you score, you've got to throw them because you've got to take it out anyway. Throw the ball to the coach, they'll throw you a different size ball. Love it, that's awesome, George. It's been fantastic. It's my new favorite one. Yeah, I gotta try that one.

And I know you spoke about finding things and then trying to implement it straight away. I know on your Instagram you have a few, and your Twitter you have a— or the X, right, they call it— you have a few like games that you use, right, that coaches can go there and take straight away.

So do you just want to share with us some resources where coaches can start taking some of these ideas and applying them, and just other resources you think other coaches might find useful?

Yeah, obviously, like, I'm on Instagram and Twitter. We'll remain Twitter, we're old school. So Instagram, it's just Jared_Hillier, I think it is. And then on Twitter, it's vice versa. It's my surname first. So it's HillierJared on Twitter. But like a huge one, like get on board with the Transforming Basketball community.

I think that's a huge resource. The library there is extensive, but there's so many knowledgeable people. I mean, like I've got Neil Howden at our club who's, I know he's a really active member on Transforming Basketball. How lucky am I? I get to speak to that guy like 2, 3 times a week.

But people like him are on there and they're just so eager to help. So get on board, join the community. Look, I think it's the best investment if you're into CLA, into any of that side of stuff. It's the best resource basketball-wise because it's all basketball-specific for the most part.

Get on board, start throwing your questions out there. There's a ton of coaches that want to help.

No, absolutely. And just as well with the conceptual offense, and there's everything in there, everything you need. So thank you so much, Gerard. A really nice conversation. The last thing I want to ask you before I let you get out of here is our transformative tip.

What is one piece of advice that you could give coaches to instantly improve their practice environment?

Pick up whatever constraints you've heard about, you've seen, whatever. Just start, because anything is vastly better than nothing. And I think the more you apply, the more you learn, the more your knowledge grows, the more you can teach. But the other one, George, I'm going with the different size basketballs.

Every possession or every score, change that basketball size. The players love it, but the development we've seen in their shooting has been drastic in a very short amount of time. So I'm a huge believer. I'm sold on it now.

Wow. I gotta try that. And I think maybe even using different balls as well, right? Maybe like a tennis ball or a football.

I think one of them's a volleyball. I think I stole a volleyball from someone and one of them's a volleyball.

Right. Awesome. Awesome. Jared, thank you so much. Thank you so much for your time and being here and sharing your knowledge.

Thanks, George.

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