From Player to Agent Journey with Billy Baron

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Hello and welcome to the Transforming Basketball Podcast. Today's guest is Billy Baron. Billy is a former EuroLeague pro known for his elite shooting, feel for the game, and leadership. Billy retired in 2024, but before that, he starred at Canisius College, where he finished 3rd in the NCAA in scoring his senior year at over 24 points per game, earning him MAC Player of the Year honors.

After college, he built an impressive career overseas, starring for elite EuroLeague clubs like Zveno Zvezda, Zenit Saint Petersburg, and Olimpia Milano. Billy, welcome to the show.

Thanks, George. I appreciate you having me.

So how are you, man? Retired last year. How's everything going? What are you up to?

It's good, man. It's going well. Obviously the retirement came a little bit sooner than, than I thought it was going to come, but all in all, I had a great career and just transitioning to the next phase of my life, which I'm really enjoying so far.

So, you know, you're not waking up figuring out like what you got to eat and then got to go to practice and do all those things. So just kind of rewiring the brain is, it takes a little bit of time though, but I'm enjoying it.

I just started an agency, so focusing more so on player development and mentoring as well as the contract side. So that's good for me. It's healthy for my mind, but just because it keeps me in the game, it's also like, it's a great way for me to impact this next generation, just taking all of my experiences, good and the bad.

And, you know, they always say hindsight's 20/20, right? So just being able to give back in that regard and, you know, giving players stuff that I wish I had.

And why is that important to you? Why do you think that, you know, I know we spoke via email and you talked about the importance of having more former players in the agent space. Can you elaborate on that?

I think it's just about being able to relate to your athletes. I think athletes need someone who, like, I had an older brother, 5 years older than me, and thank God I did because I don't make it to where I make it without him, right?

Kind of blazing the trail and me learning good and the bad from him, right? It's just taking experiences of, you know, let's just say having a bad game, right? And that's going to happen to all of us. And let's just say you have a bad game and you're in Serbia or something like that.

It's having someone being able to talk to you when you're sitting there on the bus. You just went 2 for 12. Fans are cursing at you. Everyone feels like, you know, you feel like your coach hates you, this and that. It's being able to talk to someone when those moments hit to kind of pick you up.

And then it's taking another step further. It's breaking down game film with you. It's getting on the court when we're with you. It's doing things like that. That's the mentoring piece that I feel like is, there's something missing in that space. It's something that I'm adamant about adding to it.

And then I feel like from the negotiation side and the marketing side, I feel like if you're going to be the one on the court with your guys, if you're going to be the one breaking down game film, it's like you can, you could do a damn good job marketing and selling them to an opposing coach and checking off the boxes as to why a particular player is going to work in a certain system.

Given their sets, given what the player's strengths and weaknesses are, you know, by checking those boxes, creating that synergy, I feel like you could do it. You can do an even better job of marketing and selling that player to a particular team and more so putting them in the right spot using your own knowledge, which can help them progress.

Yeah.

It reminds me of Austin Reeves and the story him, he always tells with what him and his agent did before the pre-draft. Because he went undrafted and they told the teams that wanted to draft him not to draft him just because he would be a better fit with the Lakers.

And then obviously now, you know, he's averaging over 20 points a game last season and is a great role player or close to star player. But it's that kind of like, instead of just, you're going to make the most money here, you're going to play for a great coach here.

It's like, how can you best fit to maximize your career and be successful in that season as well?

And I think that's the biggest thing that you hit it. It's like, let's say I'm talking to someone who's in college, right? And I'm like, listen, you got about 15 years to your career. How do we maximize your value over these next 15 years?

And yes, you might have someone who's offering you X amount of dollars, but that doesn't necessarily correlate with a role that you're going to thrive in, right? It's like, let's put you in a spot where you're making X amount of dollars. And hopefully down the line, we just add a zero to that number that you're making now, right?

And then maybe a couple more zeros just because It's all about fit and it's all about building your confidence, building out, building your momentum in your career. I've been in a couple of situations where I was getting DMPs and life isn't good when you're getting DMPs.

Let me just tell you, you can ask my wife. It is not fun. I don't advise that to anyone. And yes, I learned a lot from it, but I just looking back on it, I feel like going in a different direction at that particular time would have been much more beneficial.

Although I made the most out of it. I still think for my personal development, it wasn't the best spot. And thankfully I was able to, you know, really fight through that. But there was some hard times there, man. Like there was really some reflecting on, do I want to keep doing this?

Like I said, luckily I had my older brother. My dad was my coach. I did have people who I can go to in my corner. And not many people, I would say, had that luxury that I had in being able to be there for those guys.

Like it's easy to text your player. After they have 30 points, hey, great job. Awesome. That's great. Everyone's texting you. But again, what happens when they have 2 points, right? What happens when they can't read a particular pick and roll coverage, right? How do you help them at that time?

Because that's where they need it the most. It's easy to text someone if they have 30, but can you help them? Can you pick them up when they have 2? And that's crucial because guys, like I said, there's ebbs and flows. There's peaks.

It's peaks and valleys, right? We're going to be with you through the valleys to get you to those peaks. So that's my passion about it. And then kind of going down the rabbit hole of shooting and helping you progress as a shooter and as a player in the weight room, stuff like that, putting together a team around you to, let's just say you want to make X amount of dollars or you want to make it to the NBA.

Well, we're here to give you additional resources, stuff that I wish I had that can teach you about your body, can teach you about your mind, do all those things to equip yourself. Because like, I'll help you watch film because a lot of this is like, Can you self-teach yourself?

Can a lot of like, let's just say the best shooters are independent thinkers, right? They're, they're problem solvers. I think that's what makes great shooters is if you hit the front rim to start the game, it's like, all right, why did I hit the front rim?

Did I not get into my hips enough? Are my legs a little weak? Okay, how do I compensate for that? Maybe you take a little bit of arc because the goal is I want to hit the back rim. Now you work your way back from there.

So again, that's kind of what I want to do with my players. Like just, again, I'm having a conversation with them now and just breaking down game film, talking about setups and pick and rolls. I just think that's— That's extremely valuable for a player in his career.

And then just think about it. If I can break down the game film with my player on a pick and roll, don't you think I could do a pretty good job of breaking down what he does in a pick and roll to his next team?

So it just kind of correlates.

Yeah.

And you can really feel just how passionate you are about this. So that's great. We'll put the link to your company in the show notes as well, so people can check it out and find out more information on that. Let's talk a little bit about you.

And, you know, you spoke about helping your players out with their workouts, but, you know, I was speaking to Alex and he told me how intentional you were with your workouts and off-court routines. As one of the best shooters in the EuroLeague when you played, what helped you maintain that 40% 3-point average?

I think the routine started 48 hours before the game. I had very specific exercises that I did all the way up to 48 hours Before a game. And whether it was, you know, leg exercises, heavy legs, heavy core 48 hours before. Like I said, practice after that weight room session, not going to be great.

That's fine. That's not the point. You know, 24 hours before the game, I had another particular set of exercises that I did. The whole point of doing that is to feel optimal come game time. And I got obsessed with feeling that way when the ball goes up.

Do I feel like I can compete at a very high level right now? Because I think a lot of athletes can relate to this. Sometimes you step on the court and you feel like crap. You're like, you just, it's not there. Other times you step on the court, you feel unbelievable.

You can run up and down. You could play 2, 3 games in a row.

Was that your focus then, trying to get that feeling every single time by having a routine in place?

Yeah, routines for me were everything. Like, I'm not the most naturally gifted player, right? Like, you look at me, it's like I probably picked the wrong sport to play, right? So I needed every little advantage I could get. And a lot of it was, could I shoot over 40% from 3?

And I think the problem with shooting nowadays is, you know, let's just say I were to go 0 for 6 from 3. Well, the next day I'm not going to shoot 500 shots like some, a lot of coaches and players would do, because that's not necessarily the solution, especially if it's February or March, you're 7 months into a season.

My legs are fried, right? It's like understanding why did I go 0 for 6? Study your misses. It's important that you do study those misses. Let's say you're hitting front rim. Well, why am I hitting front rim? Are my legs a little weak?

Was my back a little tight? Am I not getting into my hips? Let's work on my feet. I'm a big guy when it comes to balance. Am I not transferring the power from the ground into my shot? There's so many variables that go into it.

And if you can define those as a player, that's going to lead you to more consistency down the road. Right. And what allows you to define those problems are your routines. Right. That's where I started from 48 hours before a game. And if I deviated a little bit from my routine, I could figure out, okay, this is why I feel a little bit differently come game time.

And then I can kind of pinpoint, all right, this is what to do. This is what not to do. And I became pretty obsessed with it just because I felt like I kept progressing in my career. And obviously when you're progressing, that means more money.

That means more wins. That means life is better. Like I said, DNPs and playing and making money is a completely different life. You'll be a better, you know, I wasn't the greatest with turning it off after a game. I wish I was a little bit better with that.

Let's just say getting wins and doing well makes life a whole lot better.

No, for sure. And just quickly before we move on, can you share 3 things that you had to do, you know, with the 48 hours before the game up to the game that you just had to do? Those are these 3 non-negotiables for you.

So big into a Bosu ball. Bosu ball, I'm not sure if you know about that, but there's a blue side this side, there's a black side on this side. So I did about a 45-minute balancing routine on there using both sides. So I would probably do more heavy 48 hours before the game.

I would do it the day before and the day of. I would just limit the amount of time. So there was that. There were some back exercises. I jump using my lower back. So there's particular back exercises that I absolutely had to do.

You know, it started with a foam roller, but then it started with activation or progressed to activation after that. That was a must because again, if my lower back was tight, I was, I was going to shoot You know, I was not nearly the player that I was.

And then there was some leg exercises as well. But I mean, I can kind of go on and on because to pinpoint 3 is really tough because there's so many, because the weight room for me and the exercises that I did were just as important as getting up shots before those games.

Like latter part of my career, this is after taking so many shots in my, over the course of my career that if we had the biggest game, you know, we had shootaround that morning. I get a good sweat in. I get to game speed, come shootaround.

Feel good, go home. And then when I came back to the gym, I just did like a slight activation, you know, exercises, turn like kind of like the light switches on in my body. And then I go roll the ball out, take 15 to 20 game speed shots, and I was good.

For me, that was, that's where I felt great. And I'm a jump shooter too. So volume, taking a high amount of shots is not the recipe for me. I'm not a set shooter. I'm a jump shooter. So over the course of the whole week though, like I'm not just like a, You know, let's go make 25 from 5 spots.

I'm not a big believer in that. I'm more so into movement coming off ball screens. And I feel like if I can knock those down, catch and shoots are a little bit more easy just because you feel like you're a little bit more in the flow, footwork's dialed in.

You know, I can kind of go on and on, but movement shots were a big focus for me.

Makes complete sense. And I think it's so important to have game representative shots in your practice versus just getting up reps. So let's rewind a little bit. I want to ask you, you know, your college career, you transferred, but then, you know, after that you went to Europe.

What were some of the biggest differences and maybe some of the biggest similarities between playing in college and then going to Europe?

College, especially playing for my father, it was probably a little bit more individual. And that's saying something compared to, compared to Europe, because basically all college basketball is Consider it, except for a couple coaches, I would consider it very individualistic. That's even a word, but lacking a few more team concepts, defense and offensively.

That was definitely the biggest adjustment for me. Like, I didn't really understand what like a triple switch was, honestly. Like, like, especially like box-to-box screen. And then let's just say there was a screen-to-screen. Like, I didn't even understand what the triple switch was.

And my first team in Europe, there was a bunch of veterans on my team.

Yeah. In college then, 'cause I know you had the ball a lot more in college in your hands. So it was just a lot of pick and roll, but you wouldn't necessarily get into like the defensive side of it. If there's a stack pick and roll and you're triple switching or a side pick and roll and you're triple switching.

Not too complex in those situations. No, a little bit more just shell drill, help the helper, digging from the post, simple concepts like that. Nothing like, 'cause again, like, I don't think a lot of colleges, especially when I was playing, like ran elite pick and rolls where like, all right, if there's 2 men on the weak side, Who's bumping, right?

Like there's no one, honestly, there's not a lot of college point guards, I think, or even a lot of college guards that know where to put their eyes coming off of a pick and roll. I went to a couple practices recently where Australian kid on UConn and the kid from Estonia at Providence were probably the 2 most impressive players to me.

And obviously, you know, look at where they're coming from. But the most impressive thing to me is they looked a little bit more like an NFL quarterback compared to everyone. Their reads were right, right? They were, they were checking down on, on the pocket pass.

If the pocket pass wasn't open, they're looking weak side. corner, the weak side corner, they're still, you know, getting their feet set to take a floater or a jumper. It's understanding where their eyes were. I think that's a big thing. And in college, like when I was playing, there was just no one punishing that.

So it's like your weak side defense didn't really need to be that great. You didn't need to say, all right, low man, low man bumps, top man racks it out. He's got first pass. Like there was, there wasn't much of that.

So let's take that and package it a little bit. And what is something that American coaches can learn from your league coaches and your experience, and then vice versa as well?

Tactics, what American coaches can learn from European coaches, and not all American coaches, right? But I played for a coach named Xavi Pascual who has an encyclopedia of plays. 5-1-0 used to run from 45 to an hour straight of plays on plays on plays.

And when we're playing EuroLeague, let's say we're playing Madrid on a Thursday and we're playing CSKA on a Sunday in the VTB. Friday or Saturday, he's throwing in like 3 to 5 plays for what Ceska is about to do on defense. And it's also what we're going to do on defense for them as well.

And you just, you get used to absorbing that knowledge or that what he's saying, you just get used to that style of coaching. It sounds difficult, but you do get used to it. And for the most part, like if you look at our track record there during the time I was there, it worked.

And yeah, it was a lot of plays, but man, when it works, it works. I just think the tactics and the level of X's and O's, especially, you know, think about this in a 24-second shot clock, college is 30. So the attention to detail, because if you're going to run a set on a 24-second shot clock, if it doesn't work, you're, what else are you going to really get to when defenses in Europe are so good, especially at the EuroLeague level that just isolating outside of a few players in the EuroLeague who are really good,

like it's not the most efficient thing to do. So it really, Xavi really makes you pay attention to detail, which is what I really, really respected about him and where I really learned like how to set my man up, how to create angles, how to try and draw fouls even before coming off of a floppy action, how to just be crafty.

And I think that's where looking back on it, that's kind of like where the veteran in me came out and why I was able to progress is even just, I talked about checking down with your options on pick and rolls. Sort of the same thing coming off pin downs and floppies, setting up your man, trying to draw fouls, win that space, gain that momentum so you can just gain that little, that little sliver of room to knock down that shot or make a pocket pass or whatever.

So vice versa, what European coaches can learn from American coaches is probably relationships. I think it's changed a little bit now with college basketball mirroring a little bit more of the European model with the turnover rate, with the, with the amount of 1-year contracts.

But American coaches are really good creating relationships for the most part. And I think that's just at an elementary level as a coach. How do you get the most out of a player? Well, if the player doesn't have a relationship with you, like X's and O's are really only going to matter so much.

And especially in Europe over a 10-month season, if there's no relationship there, obviously you're going to lose some games. Obviously there's going to be some tough times. We're all going to hit walls. You need that relationship to really help you get over those walls and America, we do that as a whole, is we do.

Sometimes it's a little bit too friendly, right? But I think just the whole relationship aspect of things in America. I have a kid that came over from Turkey to IMG Academy. Probably the biggest thing I told him, and I said, listen, like you can talk to your coach, like you can be vulnerable with your coach.

You can explain to him what's going on. Like, don't look at that as necessarily a weakness because a lot of coaches will just kind of be like, oh, he's asking me that question. Like, I don't want to take the time to coach that.

That's just a weakness. I'm going to kind of Label you and put you over here. No, I'm telling them in America we actually listen to you for the most part, and we'll help you. Coaches will help you, you know, kind of overcome that because that's their job, right?

So that's a little bit of what I see. You know, the most glaring thing.

It's an interesting point. You brought up a lot of different things there. I do want to get into the specifics of some of the being deceptive that you brought. So for example, in the first part, I think before the I asked you about the different.

between the EuroLeague and American coaches. You reference how, you know, the weak side defense doesn't have to be so good, right? But then in the— so in the EuroLeague, you see the weak side defense is a lot better. And then you, you know, you see Luka Dončić, he does this so well.

He looks away at the weak side corner when he's coming off that pick and roll, that middle pick and roll. And then that defender is almost sprinting to the weak side corner and he throws it for the alley-oop. So he just uses his eyes and he's deceptive, right?

Yeah.

To sell the pass one way and pass it the other way. You spoke about, and you know, you're unique in a way because at college you had the ball in your hands a lot. So you were in pick and roll situations a lot.

And the EuroLeague you did as well, but you were coming off a lot of off-ball screens. And you spoke about, you know, different ways you can create an advantage here to get the ball and get your shot off. Can you share some specific details to our listeners of how you were able to do it?

Maybe coming off the pick and roll one, and then how would you set your man up? And then 2, coming off of the screen away.

The footwork's a bit similar in both situations. I'm going right-left or I'm going left-right in both situations, right? And that anchor foot coming off of a ball screen, coming off of a floppy is everything, right? So that Bosu ball that I highlighted earlier, that I did, that was like, I did that religiously.

Like those barefoot exercises, I then incorporated some barefoot shooting. And I progressed through that, stripping away my momentum, stripping away the amount of steps into a shot to really trigger it. Let's find out where this power source has come from and let's make sure we get into those hips.

Let's make sure we get up on those toes and press up off the floor. Those are big things. So that also, I put an emphasis on that anchor foot, especially when you're doing barefoot shooting, especially when you're on that Bosu ball, right? If you can't stabilize that foot, that inside foot, Swing the body around while basically all the weight is on that inside foot.

And then again, transfer the power from the ground into your shot and sequence your shot all at the same time. Like, if you don't have the balance in that inside foot and the strength, you're going to have a very low ceiling as a shooter, especially off the move, right?

So it starts in the weight room. It starts— everything starts with your feet. And then again, it's how can you transfer the power from the ground into your shot? There's a lot that goes into it. It might sound simple, but it's not. And it takes a lot of work.

And I think a lot of shooters, they're more so into volume, right? They'll get on a shooting machine and just shoot 1,000 shots and they're losing what's a game shot, right? It's like after you shoot 100 shots, you're probably tired, you're fatigued, you're compensating.

Now you're shooting a little bit different of a shot. Okay. After 500 shots, oh crap, I'm developing a hitch here because I'm just exhausted. Now that hitch bleeds into your mechanics. Now your mind thing starts to think to do that.

Boom.

Now it's, you kind of see where I'm going. That's kind of where you can get off the tracks with mechanics. But getting back to those shots, like setups, a coach that I had my 3rd year in Spain said something to me. He used to chew me out and it was the best thing for me.

I used to come off ball screens a lot without setting up my defender. And he was big into taking 1 or 2 dribbles away from the screen and then using the screen. And I started understanding how important that was, especially, you know, think about trying to draw fouls, right?

But it also got the angle correct so I can use that ball screen, right? And then it allowed me, gave me a couple more steps to get to use that ball screen to provide me with a little bit more momentum. So that was huge for me.

And the same thing with, let's just say you're in a floppy situation. Let's just say we're in the bonus as well. And let's say I'm sitting here and there's a 4 and there's a 5. And I know if I go off the 4, they're going to switch and we're not really going to punish the switches.

much as we wish we would. So I gotta go off the 5. I take a couple steps away. I take a couple steps towards the 4, swoop this arm here underneath the armpit of my defender to try and draw the foul. Right. But I'm running right through a portion of his body to kind of stop him in his tracks.

So it kind of worked out a decent bit where I was able to get that foul. But even if I didn't get that foul, I was still, I took away my defender's momentum and it just triggered, already triggered the footsteps and the footwork going into my shot.

Mm-hmm.

So again, just those little things. And then the footwork is the same thing, right, left, and left, right. And for me, coming off of a ball screen, when I tell a lot of guards, especially ones who are not like an elite, you know, Shane Larkin or Mike James or something like that, it's like, all right, if I'm going to punish the defense with my shot, I also got to be able to hit this pocket pass in the same body position as if I'm able to shoot it.

And if you, the more you can rep that out at game speed, the slower that actually becomes. And when you're able to read the big who's in, let's just say he's in a higher flat coverage. If you're able to bait him into jumping at you and then hit that pocket pass, if you're able to do that plus knock down that shot consistently, that's where the game slows down and it gets, it gets fun at that point, just because the stars start aligning and things start making sense.

You understand where to look, what to read, yada, yada, yada.

I get you. And that pocket pass is so important. It just opens everything up because you can, if you create the right decision, make the right decision, create an advantage, then you're always going to be playing advantage basketball on offense. You know, what we do at Transforming Basketball a lot is like talk to coaches and help coaches and give small-sided games where players can be put in environments where they can practice this specific skill.

So it's not too complex because that when you're learning something, maybe if you're playing 5 on 5 in a game and it's, you know, you're getting those, those reps 5 times a game, you're not going to be Seeing the advantage of the pocket pass there.

But if you can strip it back to a 2-on-2, then 3-on-3 and build it up from there, then you can start to teach these skills to these players. And you know, that's what we're all about here. You did mention floppy action. And this is something I wanted to ask you about.

What were some of the most effective actions that teams ran for you? And then I also want to go a step further and ask you, how would you defend yourself in those situations?

So best floppy actions I ran were ones where—

Well, it doesn't have to be floppy, but just any action.

No, floppy is a good one because I fought this fight for a long time with a couple of coaches. It's, I wanted to get on, like a lot of the times floppy is you get under the basket, you stop, everyone's ready. All right, let's pick one side to go off of.

Well, you lose the advantage right there. So I had a couple of sets that I advised. I'm like, can we do this? Let me inbound the ball to the point guard. Let me run parallel with the point guard, whoever big I'm coming up.

Just flip your body, get a piece of my man. At least if he's— and if he cuts through, I can pop right back. But let's just say I'm running parallel with my point guard. The second I get towards the 3-point line, I change up my speed.

And all of a sudden I go stop and I go. My big is going to flip and get a little piece of my guy. And again, if he goes through or if he trails, I already have the advantage. Now, if he sticks with me, now I stop underneath the basket, stop, get right back into his chest, and then go.

And now you can run that kind of coming from the free throw line as well. The object, what I'm saying is you want to get under the basket, creating a little imbalance in your defender. I don't think floppies are nearly as effective when you get under the basket and everyone is stopped and you're like, all right, it's kind of like, ready?

Ready. Let's go. It's difficult, especially as a shooter, to get open, especially when you're playing against really, really good defenders. When you get to the EuroLeague, and for me, like, I used to have 6'6 to 6'9 guys on me. So. I needed a couple extra inches of separation, right?

If I were defending, like, I'd put a big team out there. I'd put a 3. I'd put a guy like 6'8, 6'9 on me, 6'7, and I just switch, especially in floppies.

What about top block? And I know you talked about reroute, like, you know, going back if there's a top block, because that's the— I guess that's the, you know, the kind of benefit of floppy. You know, if they're blocking you one way, you can go the other way.

But, you know, Is that effective at all?

Like with, you know, top locking? Yes, it is. It's very effective, especially if the guy's strong. The guy's weak, you can kind of manipulate him a little bit. In Europe, you can get a little, you can get a little, you can get, I wouldn't say a little bit, you can really get away with using your hands and kind of shoving your guy and kind of taking his body and moving him over here.

Like, and all you need is him to go like there and then boom, you got him. If the guy's strong, top locking is really good, especially if you don't have a big that can shoot that's setting a screen. Now it's kind of like, all right, this really is 2-on-1 here.

Another defense that would run against me is off of a floppy. I would give—I would have the opposing big give the guard an option whether the trail or go through. And if I was the guard guarding it, because I'm always listening to what's happening, right?

And 80%, 90% of the time they're going to chase me. So my footwork's already like premeditated, right? And when that happens, everything's already triggered. I'm able to get to my reads. I'm able to take the shot. I'm able to. You know, curl it, pocket pass, floater, whatever it might be, right?

But if you can mess me up, if the opposing big can give him some space to go through or trail, and then my— the guy guarding me can just say, hey, chase, chase, chase, but he's actually going through, that would be a big thing.

I think another one of the best defenses that I think a team could do is kind of having their big— let's say they're playing defense, I'm in a floppy action, given The option to the guard, the guy who's guarding me, whether to go through or whether to chase.

And I think for whoever is guarding me, like, I listened a lot to what they were saying. So like 80% of the time they would chase me. And so just hearing those kind of triggered my footwork already. Like it was already premeditated of what I was going to do for the most part.

But I think if you can give, if you don't know what your defender is going to do, you can't really premeditate your footwork like that. And that split second of hesitation in your footwork can ultimately affect your percentages. Of shooting or just overall efficiency.

So if I was guarding me, I'd say chase, chase, chase. That doesn't mean anything because I'm still going through, or I'm actually chasing you once you figure out that what I'm saying doesn't really matter. But if I can just get me thinking a little bit and give me more hesitation about what I think you're going to do, I think that's a big advantage for the defense.

Yeah. And I know you played for Messina. One of his things of guarding that kind of, if you would curl and there'd be a chase. They would late switch it if you were to attack the basket and then your defender would veer off and guard the 5 man.

Kind of a little bit to what you were referencing, but that's another way you can guard yourself there. I want to pivot. I know we've been speaking now for over 30 minutes here, so I do want to ask you the last question or 2 here.

But I want to pivot from basketball now that you're back in the U.S. and, you know, you have kids. And they're playing sports, youth sports. How do you view it as a parent? And what are some of your concerns about the current US grassroots model?

And a 2-part question here as well. If you could redesign this basketball development based on your experiences that you've had in Europe, what would it look like?

I probably, I think the biggest thing with youth sports now is there's just, there's too many games. I think there's not enough teaching and there's not enough concepts. In my time spent overseas and also, you know, obviously spent in America, I think there needs to be a healthy balance between the two.

I think America is mostly dominated by individual skill. How can I get to my bag? And that ultimately, like chasing Instagram reels and Instagram moves, I think leads to inefficiency. I think simple is more effective, especially like kids want to work on step back this, step back that.

It's like, dude, you're not You're not playing against Kawhi Leonard, right? Just shoot over your defender or just one move and go, especially with the lack of emphasis on defense. And then from the European side, I think there's also, it's the opposite. I think there's a lot of team concepts, which I agree.

Kids learn how to play handoffs. They learn to play 2-man game, all of that. There's not enough individual skill work that's being drilled. So if there could be a healthy medium between, you know, the 2-man concepts, the 3-man concepts, how to play with your teammates, how to play within space, how to fit a piece of the puzzle, because Because you're not always going to be the guy in the team and you can do whatever you want.

Sometimes you're going to be on a team where within your role, you're going to be in more catch and shoot situations, and that might only come a few times. How can you maximize your abilities within those catch and shoot situations to ultimately buy yourself more time, buy yourself a bigger role so that you can expand that?

And without kids truly understanding how to do that, I think it's really holding them back from progressing and developing within their career. So again, I would say a healthy medium between the individual skills that are being taught in America and the team concepts in Europe is— and again, I have 3 boys, so I'm looking forward, hopefully they love the game.

I'm looking forward to testing it out on them. But I think the biggest thing with them, what I'm going to teach them if they want to kind of go down that rabbit hole with me, is learning how to play pick and roll at a young age.

I don't think they're going to be 6'9, 6'11, jumping, touching the top of the backboard, right? So it's like, How can you play with your bigs? How can you play with, you know, play within space and utilize space the correct way? This is the first thing that I'm going to teach them.

And obviously, you know, along with shooting mechanics as well, I think shooting's a big thing. You see a lot of kids, and I was a victim of it. My kid is super young and I'll never have him shoot on a 10-foot hoop with a real ball until he, I feel like he's strong enough.

Because right now there's a lot of kids that their survival instincts kick in and they just chuck the ball up there. And that actually sets back their shooting mechanics a whole long ways. And when they start doing that from 3 to 4 years old, which you'll probably see every kid doing it, they're still going to probably shoot like that come 10, 12 years old.

They're going to have a product of that. And so biggest thing I've taught my son, he's 5 years old, is, hey, no chicken wing, elbow in. And he's shooting with a small ball and he's shooting on a small hoop. And we played in a league where he could barely reach the hoop last year.

And then he's just complaining to me. I said, don't worry. Like, you don't want to reach that hoop now. Even though the hoop was only 8 feet. So I'm like, trust me, this is, you're going to cut the line when it comes to development if your mechanics are dialed in.

So that's another thing that I would teach is especially with such an emphasis on shooting nowadays. I mean, shooting the basketball is one of the more profitable skills in all sports. And that's why I love being in the agent space now is like, I feel very strongly about how I can help a person develop shooting, right?

And if I can help you develop shooting, I can help market and sell that shooting, right? And that's going to kind of be my recipe to success. And what I'm doing now is pouring into my guys all these ideas that I have and helping them implement that, helping them understand their bodies.

How can I get the light bulb to go off within you to say, hey, that's why I hit the front rim, this is why I'm going to hit the back rim now. So as you can see, I go down the rabbit hole pretty easily, but there's a lot within youth sports.

I just— yeah.

More so like equipment scaling, Learning to play, you know, more with your teammates, less isolation basketball, more emphasis on practice time. You know, I agree completely with you, Billy. Like, I think the fact that there's so much emphasis of playing games takes away from, all right, how are we going to improve how we're playing in the games, attacking the closeouts?

Like you said, you know, 2-man game in a pick your own, playing within space. Like, how can we actually work in that if in a game, You know, there's 2 players in the pick and roll, but then the 3rd player is coming in and taking away your space because they don't necessarily know what to do.

So it takes away, if the whole team doesn't know what to do, it takes away what those 2 players or those, I guess those 4 players, offense and defense, can do in that situation. Billy, I got one more question before I let you get out of here.

And that's our transformative tip question. And it is, if you could leave coaches, or matter of fact, even players, coaches or players with one tip, that will instantly transform how effective they are in their practice environments, what would that be?

Routine. I think, again, the routine. One thing that I tell my players is, how many times can you feel optimal once you step on the court? And I think if you can feel optimal, you're going to have a better workout, you're going to have a better practice, you're going to have a better game.

Where does that start? That starts from your routine. So I would say, and again, that's going to lead to a clearer mind, that's going to lead to better reaction come closeout situations, that's going to lead to better footwork. I would say treat yourself like a pro.

When you step on that court, you shouldn't be like, ah, stretching out, doing this and doing that. No, like you got practice at 11 o'clock, you got to work out at 11 o'clock. You better be getting ready by 10 o'clock and you got to be turning all the light switches in your body, turn on all the muscles, loosening up, mobilizing, working on functionality, all of that stuff.

So again, that's how I would teach shooting is again, if my back's hurting, I'm only going to be so much of a shooter, right? And I want to get The goal for me was whether I'm playing pick and roll, whether I'm working on closeout situations, it's lower quantity, higher quality.

And that's how I think that the better you can simulate game-like situations in practice, in a workout, the better you're going to be and the more efficient you're going to be.

No, that's lovely. Billy, thank you so much. It's been great chatting to you.

I appreciate you, man.

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