It Just Makes Sense with Jeff Schmidt

This is the Transforming Basketball Podcast hosted by Alex Sarama. This is the podcast helping coaches and practitioners change the way we think about basketball performance. Our goal is to provide the ultimate resource for making sense of applying contemporary skill acquisition ideas within basketball.

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I'm here with Jeff Schmidt. Jeff, could you do me a favor? Just give everybody in the audience a brief background of who you are and where you're at in the world right now.

Awesome. Well, first of all, thank you for having me on. I'm a big fan of the podcast. I'm a really huge fan of Transforming and everything that you guys do. So thank you for having me on. It's a, it's a pleasure to be here.

So I have been coaching a little over 25 years. Coach— I started coaching when I was right outta high school, so 18 years old, and been doing that for quite a while. Mostly high school on the boys' side and dabbled in college for a few years and, and got back to high school.

And recently I started about 5 years ago, I stepped down as a head coach and started my own business, training business. And I've been doing that for about 5 and a half years now and coaching my boys' teams, my boys' youth teams, 5th grade team and a 3rd and 4th grade combination team.

But so also I've been teaching PE for about 22 years now. And so I have my hands full and I love every, every minute. And that's kind of where that, where we're at. I live in Northern Colorado and Fort Collins, about an hour north of Denver.

And so I originally from California and Fresno, California. And Born and raised there. And we moved here about 8 years ago.

I'm just very intrigued with the shift because honestly, when you started speaking, it's a very similar background to myself. I wasn't in the head coaching role, but I started coaching immediately out of high school, been in the high school ranks, dabbled in college.

What made you want to like step down from the head coaching role and start your own business for private training?

Well, you know, it got to the point and I had young boys, so I have 2 young boys, 11 and 9. And it got to the point where I was missing a lot of things that they were starting to do. My priority in life, you know, I love basketball.

Basketball has been such a huge part of my life, but my family is my priority. And so understanding that, trying to balance it, it's really, really hard. Something we had, I had this conversation with a coach the other day, trying to balance and being a great coach, a great father, all these different hats.

You know, it was just really straining my relationship with them, being around them wasn't enough. And so I stepped down. And started doing this really out of just being around my boys a lot more. And to be honest, I didn't know anything about, you know, what was I going to do with training?

I'm not a businessman. That's not my background. And so, you know, I just started with what I knew. So what I was taught, and then we'll kind of get back into CLA. So I was, you know, it's basically the generational hand-me-down of drills and philosophies and how to coach and why you coach.

And so I just knew I wanted to do something around the game and stay around the game. And my wife and my brother-in-law kind of said, hey, well, why don't you just teach kids how to play? And I didn't think it would work, but I was willing to try it because I wanted to be around the game.

So I started doing the training and man, just in 5 and a half years, the evolution of me, what I teach, how I teach, you know, with my background in teaching, it's changed completely with the CLA. And it's gone from what is everyone else doing to this is how we're going to approach things.

And it's just changed significantly the philosophy on how I teach and what I teach. So.

How'd you first discover the CLA?

I would really just dabble on trying to get better, just trying to learn new things. And I've always been, I have never really been like status quo. So I always wanted to be a little bit different. And so I came across some different coaches who were talking about principles of play and concept basketball, and Alex's name obviously came up.

And so I would watch some different things on it and just started to slowly learn some of it. And I think at first it was a little overwhelming when you start diving into the research and things like that. It can scare off some coaches, I'm sure, but I stayed in it because I really thought it was awesome and it just simpler to learn, simpler to teach, I thought.

And, you know, as you deep dive a little bit deeper into it, to me, what I tell everybody is it just makes sense. It just makes sense. And that's kind of what I throw out to coaches and players and makes sense because there's facts, research, and evidence based around a lot of these ideas and things that have been around for a long time, but we haven't really dove into.

And, and I really look at the game and how it's evolving, and if we don't evolve with it, I think we're doing players a disservice of giving them the same old anecdote of what they've been giving for the last 50, 60 years of the game.

And so I think it's our job to look at different ways to teach, different ways to learn, and I think it's our job to go out and give those players these ideas, and the sooner the better.

Now you said you've evolved so much in these last 5 years. Like what would you point to? Like if somebody walked in when you were first starting your business and they were to watch a session, what's changed since then?

Wow. It's really the way I look at the game, the way I view the game, the way I evaluate the game. Everything has changed completely on what you thought basketball was and how you looked at it. And now looking at it through a different lens.

How it's completely different how I look at a basketball game. I look at some notes I took, you know, 10 years ago about the game and now I look at it and like, wow, things have changed for me just by being exposed more with the CLA.

And so it's really every aspect. I teach differently. I talk to players differently. My patience has gotten better. So it's not just the physical parts of the game, the drill, the, you know, The way we move and things like that, but it's also the way we have relationships with the players.

So the transformational coaching is really a huge part of this as well. I have to have good relationships with my team, my sons, and the players that I work with, the clients that I work with. So it's a really huge thing, you know, and it doesn't have to be all about us and our ego.

It can, it's definitely about the players and getting information and trying to See if it works for that player, but also changing it and not being so, you know, not being so much like right on, like this is exactly what I have to do in this workout or this practice plan.

I can kind of go away and see what's going on, evaluate it and adjust it so that they can get better with the CLA approach, keeping boundaries of what we want to get done in that environment that we're setting up for them. So it's really just changed everything.

How I look at it, how I talk about it, how I discuss it. And it's really interesting because, you know, it's not really popular. And so trying to explain it in layman's terms to parents, to other coaches has gotten me better at explaining how this works and how we do things.

And so even with players as well, explaining it to them and how we, how our philosophy is, I just think it's really, it's changed everything on how I was taught. And, and now how I teach it.

Hate to put you on the spot here, but I'm just curious. Let's do a little role play here. I'm one of those parents walking in. What, what is your pitch to this different way of doing things, Jeff?

Well, we try to create the environment that they're gonna see in a game. And so when parents come to me, they usually, they're not coming to me because they wanna see their kid dribble the ball better. They want to be better in games.

They want to improve in the games. They don't want to be, you know, a great practice player. They want to be great in the games. And so we want to establish an environment That has context to the game that looks and feels just like a game.

So I tell them, we take pieces of the game, slices of the game, and we create situations, environments where they have to make decisions and reads in a game. And so that's kind of what we do. I have coaches that help me within our training sessions and in our practices with our teams that simulate that as best we can.

You know, obviously every kid's a little bit different on what they're trying to focus on and get better at. So. Those boundaries and those constraints will change, you know, with every player. We might have a small group of 3 or 4 kids and the coaches know the players pretty well.

We have a plan for each kid, player development plan, and the coaches know exactly what they have to work on and improve on. So there'll be different constraints, 3 or 4 different constraints in the same workout, but differently from each kid. And so we explain that to the parents.

We explain You know, that this is not going to be something you probably have been taught or seen in the past, probably how you were playing the game. And it's different than the way I was playing the game as well. But they're going to see that doing it this way, I've done it both ways.

I've done it the traditional way and I've done it with the CLA. And there's no doubt in my mind coaching for 25 plus years that this is a faster way to develop, but it's also a more adaptive way to develop. And to get better at the game.

So, and what I tell them is, you can watch, this is what we're going to do. We're going to watch, we're going to evaluate, we're going to talk. And a lot of times the beauty of it is I can talk to the parents as they're going through these workouts and my coaches are out there with them.

And we can talk through a lot of these things. So they start to hear and see a different approach. And I'm getting better at it to explain it to parents every day too, because I'm learning, you know, I'm really curious about how to learn more about this and Just hungry to learn more and get better.

And at 47, if we're not learning every day, then we're going to get passed up and we're doing kids a disservice, our teams, our players that we're working with. There's always an efficient, a more efficient, effective way to do things. And I think if we continue to have an open mind and learn and be curious, we can continue to build the game and spread the game the right way and get better at our craft.

What I like to tell coaches too, it's like, You know, a lot of these coaches have been coaching for a long time around here in the area that I'm in, in 20, 30 years. And it's not 20 years of coaching. It's 1 year, 20 times over and over and over again, rather than trying to get better every year and, you know, improve things.

There's always a better way to do things, more effective way to do things.

I'm not going to argue with any of that, Jeff. So shifting gears a little bit, speaking of learning, like what compelled you to make the leap to actually travel all the way to Italy from Colorado? And join us at the Transforming Basketball Camp?

And then what were some of your key takeaways after spending a week there watching myself, Alex, and all the other clinicians work?

Yeah. Well, I've never been to Europe. That was the first time I went to Europe. And so I've always wanted to have an excuse to go to Europe. And I think this was it. And, you know, by then I really, I don't know, I think Transforming might've been around for a year or so, maybe, maybe around there.

And it was really taking over my curiosity, my, some of my time. When I saw that there was going to be a camp, I really was telling myself, as soon as there's a camp or some sort of event, I'm there. And so, you know, it was a great way to say, hey, I went to Europe and talked my wife into it.

And she said, all right, go get out of here, go for it. But, you know, going there just with the idea of, I want to learn, I just want to see this in action. I want to see how others teach it and just see if I can steal as much information as I possibly can and utilize it with what I'm doing.

So I was able to do that. The clinicians there were amazing. Everyone's a little bit different on how their approach is or how they explain things or their demeanor. And it was like grabbing from everybody that people were so open to collaborate. So available, to be honest.

You know, we could jump, we're on the court. So I'm taking notes, putting my notes down, jumping on the court, working with the players, talking to the coaches. You know, it was like having 25 clinicians right around you because not only are the head clinicians really good and you're learning from them, but you're learning from the other guys that are there.

They're there to learn and get better too. And they have some information to give as well. So it was like this melting pot of ideas and brains altogether. And you just don't get that at like, you know, coaching clinics or things that you see online.

And so being there was really great because I could ask questions and get immediate feedback. But I was also on the court too with George was one of the clinicians and George would give us the opportunity to jump on the court and add a constraint or Hey, how would you change this?

Or what do you think about this? Like, what would you do? Or do you have any ideas about this? He was asking us questions as well. So it was a great, just a great opportunity to, for growth and to learn and get better.

I, I literally took 100 notes, 100 pages of notes in that week, and it took me like 2 weeks to type it all up. And there were some coaching friends of mine who did, who weren't able to go to Italy that I was sending it to and It was an amazing time and just great people too.

And that's important to me at this point in my life. I don't want to be around people who don't want to share or have egos or, you know, aren't good people, aren't approachable. Everyone was extremely approachable, just very humble and willing to give information that I really appreciated.

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Of those 100 notes, and you were going through those, I'm just curious, just for selfish reasons, is there anything you would kind of wish you actually had more of in the experience or something you wish we could have done differently just moving forward for—

I love this. I love the setup. If you could control the weather, maybe a little bit, it was really hot. There's no such thing as air conditioning. But, you know, other than that, really, it was just a really good setup, well-thought-of environment. that you created and Alex created.

And I think there really isn't. I mean, I thought it was amazing. Even the, you go down to the food and the living quarters, it was such a good experience. I mean, we're right on the beach. You can't really ask for more than what we had there, to be honest.

And so I really loved everything about it. You know, I got to see a little bit of Europe and Italy with it, and it was really a chance of a lifetime for me. And I appreciate what you guys put together and how you did it.

And I know there's things that always can get better. But I think they were too minute to really change how the setup is. I, I think it was great for coaches and players.

That's great to hear, man. While you were there, you crossed paths with a lady named Kerri Kuzbyt, and you obviously were enjoying her session enough that you decided to reach out later on and bring her over for a camp in your neck of the woods.

Yeah, I, I was thinking as this camp, uh, in Italy was going on that, man, this would be great. If this came to, you know, locally. And so I had a chance to really sit down and talk with Kerri in more detail. She's got a, you know, very similar situation where she does a lot of training with athletes.

And so we really got into some of the business part of a conversation and some of the technical things that she was doing and how she approached it. And I really liked the way she taught and I knew she was a teacher. I kind of had a great feeling that she was a teacher at one point and sure enough she was.

And so we got into a lot of Talking about that, but I just, you know, I thought it would be great to get some camp out to where I was. And really, I could have picked any clinician, but, you know, she was really willing to come out and she said, we can make it work.

I think this would be great. You know, it would be the first one in the United States, which it was, which is really, really cool. And so, yeah, I thought it would be great. You know, I'm thinking selfishly, it'd be great for me as well, but I could also really reiterate some of these ideas and concepts to the kids I'm working with, new kids who have never been around it before, and just start spreading this in the United States.

And I think it's really important that we get a lot of these concepts and ideas out there and they'll stick if they get into the right hands, obviously. And so having that exposure, I think was great. Kerry did an amazing job out here and I learned a ton and we collaborated so much together and The kids had a blast.

I was running from parents to working on the court because these parents were grabbing me and saying, hey, this has been so great. This is awesome. This is different than any other camp we've been to. And, and that's exactly what we wanted to get out of it.

And I thought we did a good job of executing that.

What was the setup of the camp like? So it was just, were you helping run sessions? Was Carrie just running sessions? What was it like? How long was it? And just, just give me the general outline of what the camp looked like.

Yeah, it was a 2-day camp. We had 3 different sessions. We had a boys group, we had a girls group, and we had like an elite session where we went into a little bit more depth on some of the things, a little faster pace.

So yeah, a lot of time on task was really, really great. We were able to collaborate. We kind of bounced ideas off of each other. So she would start a drill or an activity and I would jump in and add some constraints to it or change the scoring.

You know, just adding what I saw we could get better at, you know, kind of like putting a lot of the things that we learned in Italy and a lot of the things we're learning through Transforming into play. She would start something and then I wouldn't know exactly what she was going to do and how that was going to set up, but I would look at it and say, this is what I would do to it.

She would ask me questions. What do you think? What would you do a little differently? Where do you think we should go from here? So always getting me kind of thinking. And then vice versa, I would start a drill. She would jump in and say, have you thought of this?

Or what do you think about this? Or how would you change it differently? And so we were able to do that. We took day 1 and day 2, and in between we'd chat a little bit about what, how it went, what we could do a little bit different tomorrow, how we could change or add some different things.

And so constant evaluation, changing, adapting to The kids that we had out there and we had everything from, you know, beginners to more advanced high school. We had a college player there that was, that jumped in as well. And so we had some different, different levels and different age groups there, which that's what I work with anyway.

So I think it's awesome. You know, and if people are looking to get into the CLA or learn more, the beauty of it is I work with my 3rd grade team on some of this stuff. And a lot of the things that we would do with our 3rd grade team individually is player development-wise, I would do with a pro.

I would just change the constraints and, and manipulate some things a little bit different, have maybe a little bit of a different context. But we try to find that challenge level no matter what level they're at so that we can get them to learn.

And that's, I think to me, that might be one of the harder, more challenging things is find the challenge level for every single player, no matter where they're at, to make them learn at a higher, faster pace or at a pace that they can improve in.

So that's kind of how we had it set up. And so it was about 2 hours for each session. And we had a little bit of a break between one of the sessions and, you know, just great feedback from kids. You know, things are going well, Adam, when you can look at their faces, they're having fun.

They're smiling. They're working hard. They're sweating. They're challenged enough to where they might get a little frustrated, but boom, they figure something out and they just, they glow. And so that's what we were trying to find for every group. And it was different.

Every group was a little bit different. So there's always kind of this change, this manipulation, this adapting to what we had in front of us. And I think that's part of the fun, to be honest, as a coach, that's part of the fun.

Some people might think that's, oh, that's too much work or that's hard. So is coaching. Coaching's hard, you know? But I think the CLA and learning this has really got me to, to really look to be more creative on my end, to learn as much as I can, to always grow.

And to, it's been more fun, man. I've really built even more love for the game and I have a lot of love for the game. Been doing this a long time. I haven't had this much fun learning and, and doing things with the game of basketball since I probably started playing, my first started playing basketball.

So it's just been a game changer for me. Everything. Wow.

I should just end the podcast right there. That's, that's a sell job for the CLA, man.

It's good stuff. It's good stuff, man.

No, but you're, I mean, you're bringing up a great point because as you were describing that, like, I gotta find the challenge point. I gotta potentially manipulate constraints differently. If I set up an activity, maybe it doesn't go well initially. And how do you go about improving your constraints?

How about that? How about that for a question?

Yeah, I think some of the challenges that I come up with is if things aren't working, which happens, it happens a lot. If we're putting ourselves out there with the CLA, you know, things And just because kids are struggling doesn't mean it's not working.

I think sometimes we get that a little bit confused, you know, when we're evaluating. Traditionally, we watch practice. If it's not going great, like it's not smooth or it's not flowing the way we want, we think we're having a bad practice where now my mindset is that's a good practice.

If it's ugly at times, that's the way it's probably going to be in a game. So Why not have practices look like that as well? Where you get into some difficulty is when kids are getting frustrated to the point where they're losing interest or engagement, or their emotions are getting in the way rather than just focus on the game.

And so we have to find these ways to manipulate it so where we're not going too far one way or the other. It's not too easy. It's not too hard. We got to find our ways in the middle, but I'm not a creative person by nature, Adam, but, you know, this has got me to be as creative as I possibly can, asking other coaches what are ways that they come up with creative constraints or what do they come up with different activities that help.

And I just try to be myself, but evaluate ourselves after a workout. You know, I, it's, I think sometimes we get into, for me, it's maybe not making enough constraint changes. I think sometimes coming from a traditional background, we let things go a little bit too long without adding more constraints.

So it's finding, am I adding too much? Am I not adding enough? Just keeping a focus on intently, where are we at right now presently? Are we too much constrained? Are we not constrained enough? Trying to keep us in that avenue, those boundaries, trying to keep us right down, you know, to where they're getting challenged enough, but There's always going to be some things that come up.

You know, sometimes I want things to be simple, so I try to make it more simple than not. I think some coaches, when they do this, I've heard some feedback where it's too much. I'm doing too much. I'm making it way more complicated than it needs to be, or my practice plan is way too complicated.

I like simple and kids are going to respond to simple. But that's definitely a challenge. That's a hard thing to try and simplify everything because there is some things that with the CLA, if you, you can get down a rabbit hole and maybe overstimulate your thinking a little bit.

And we want to, I try to keep things as simple as possible working with the kids that I do. So, and the teams that I'm working with, the youth teams. So there's always things that, you know, that come up to in workouts or practices.

One other thing too is. Thinking about a focus for a practice or a workout, that's something I definitely need to be a little bit better at and try to find some consistency with. And so kind of working from the, you know, from the end result over or the big picture result, I need to do a little bit better job of that, but there's always things that we can get better.

And I think that's part of what really intrigues me about the CLA is I can get better. When I first started learning it, you don't know what you don't know. And there's so much out there I can get better at and learn. And I, I was very humbled at the beginning that I thought I knew a lot about the game of basketball, but there's so much more I can learn and get better at.

And so that competitive juice got, came outta me and after I committed to it, I was just, I wanted to learn more and just take as much information in as, as possible. So, well, I'm curious if I got any, I don't know if I got to the point of that, but it's all right.

You popped a, like a question in my head is just when you were just talking about like what you said you were struggling with as far as like having an end state and then kind of more or less like backtracking. Can you describe like what you mean there where you, where you're, you said you're struggling like structuring your workouts that clearly?

Yeah. Just, you know, having a more intent on what I want to get done or what, you know, what we want the, the practice or the workout to be focused around. When with my business, I have, I'll have 4 or 5 different sessions in a day.

And each session is completely different. I'll have maybe a 10 and under session. I'll have a middle school session, which is like 12 or 13 and under session. I'll have a high school session. And then I might have some college kids that come in and work with us, some more elite players.

And so each one's going to be completely different. The focus might be completely different in all of those different workouts. And so I constantly have to try and simplify it so I don't overwhelm myself with what we want to get done in that workout.

But it's individualized sometimes with these players. So because one person is, they're not all the same player. So one person needs to work on one thing like a shooting. Another player needs to be a better finisher. So trying to incorporate all of those things into a workout, but maybe having an overlying focus on what you want to try to accomplish or Something new that you want them to learn or add to their game.

Trying to find that to make things a little more streamlined in our workouts and our practices is just something I think that is taking a lot longer for me to kind of get a real good grasp on. So like, let's say for instance, I have a group that really needs to learn a little bit more principles of play.

So the focus will be principles of play. How am I going to incorporate those principles of play within these workouts? But still hit on each of these players' player development plans so that they're continuing to grow within a group environment. That's really challenging, I think.

And something I'm, I can definitely, I'm striving to get better at every day.

That does make sense. And I'm, I would just be, I think the player development profiles are a tremendous idea, especially for that business that you're in where, I mean, that's everything. So do you have a decent amount of time prior to the sessions knowing who's actually going to be there?

Yeah, I have a schedule. I can look pretty much anytime. Sometimes the, you know, players, they'll schedule themselves right before the workout. But for the most part, I, I know I have a good idea who's coming and who's gonna be there. So I'll have a little window of, of opportunity to kind of sit down and look at it and then maybe start to put some ideas down on paper that I want to kind of focus on with each of the players.

So I might have their names written down with what we want to work on with them. Their idea, their player development plan, but also this idea of what we want to get done today. So it's kind of a combination of meshing those 2 things together, whether that's principles of play or a certain, you know, certain idea that we want to get across, or, and it could be even a mental thing too.

It could be a transformational coaching type moment that we want to get across in that workout. There's so many holistic things that we have to kind of add to this thing and This puzzle. But I think that's the challenge and that's what I love about it, to be honest.

And, you know, I can always look back at, hey, did that, how'd that go? How'd that workout go? Or how'd that practice go? What can I do next time to get, make it a little bit better? What went well? What needs to work on?

So I think that's evaluating, going back. Kerry even gave me a great idea of filming yourself in that workout or that practice and miking yourself up so you can hear yourself, how you're teaching, how long you're giving explanations. We want to keep it short.

How simple things are. How am I coming across to the players? How do I sound? If I was a player, would I like and be responsive to what I'm saying in practice or how I'm saying it in practice? And then did I get what I wanted to get in that practice accomplished?

And how did they do? How did the players do with that information that I was giving them? So I think a good thing to do for coaches and practitioners is going back and seeing yourself in the workout or the practice, hearing yourself, and then evaluating yourself from that.

I guess the only idea that comes to mind for that particular issue with like covering a holistic goal and then dealing with the individual constraints that you're facing, and you obviously want to develop these players individually, would be right on those player development profiles.

As you go about doing this, write down individual constraints as far as like associated with all of their rate limiters or whatever. Categories you have, just have specific individual constraints and then track those. And like, obviously you'll come up with ideas as you see behaviors emerge within the practice, but I would keep it, keep a tally of like, hey, we use this constraint for this particular rate limit or this capacity or whatever.

And this seemed to be effective, not effective. They seem to like this, dislike this. Should we revisit this? How could we tweak that? But I think keeping track of the individual, like the constraints you toss at them within that holistic drill. Like obviously if you're doing principles of play, Like in the grand scheme, you're probably like doing like floor is lava, zero-second decision, something like that.

To build on top of that, you just bring in those individual constraints and you just adapt it to whatever the needs are of the players at that time.

Yeah, that's a great idea. What I'd like to do too is write a lot of notes while we're in practice. So I might have a pen and a paper. I might have my practice plan on paper and I'm writing notes on that practice plan like I used to do as a coach back, even back in the day.

That seems to help me cuz I can look at that right away, know what I wrote down, and then make an adjustment for next time if I'm not recording the practice. So always kind of writing down ideas. This worked, this didn't work, and why.

So, you know, maybe we'll add this constraint next time, or this constraint worked really, really well. We need to continue to dial that in. And so, yeah, that's, I, I think that's a great point, a great idea. And you got my mind thinking right as we're doing this.

So that's—

That's really good.

But I think that's really important that we're not just giving them things that we've learned. We're not just taking what, stealing something and throwing it out there and hope it works. It's more, it's deeper than that. And, and you gotta know why you're doing it.

And there has to be, you know, a very idealistic, you have to understand like, hey, this is exactly why we want to do this. Here's the idea behind it. Here's what we want to do. Here's the end result we want to get out of it.

And, and, and I think that's something that as coaches, we're always trying to nail down and I'm doing the same thing and No different than anyone else. But yeah, that's a great point that you, you have there.

It's just a stepping stone to the next thing. I mean, it's, it's a continual process, this learning that we're trying to do here, man. So Jeff, I appreciate you coming on and spending some time here. If you want to give the people like where they can get ahold of you and just discuss these ideas further.

Yeah. If anyone wants to get ahold of me, I'd love sharing and I appreciate everyone that's shared with me. So I'm always open to sharing. I'm on Instagram mostly. Under Schmidt Performance. And then you can also just reach out to me through email, schmidtperformance@outlook.com.

And would love to chat with anybody who has some, some ideas. And I wanna learn from other people. So reach out to me and gimme some good ideas that work for you too, cuz I would, I would love to hear it.

Awesome. Well, thanks, Jeff. Appreciate it, man.

Thanks for having me on. Appreciate you. Thank you.

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