Beyond the numbers: Building Culture at FAU with Corey McCrae

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Hello and welcome to the Transforming Basketball Podcast. On today's episode, we have Boston College assistant coach Corey McCray. He is a coach with deep roots in grassroots basketball. Corey has spent 7 years at the powerhouse, the Matha Catholic High School, where he coached number 1 pick, Markelle Fultz, before a successful stint at Delaware, and now in the ACC with Boston College.

Coach, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me, George. I appreciate your time.

So how is the season going so far? I know we just got underway. How's everything going from your side?

You know, we got off to a little rocky start. You know, we're 1-2 right now, dropped 2 games that we were up. late in the second half. So our guys are learning how to win. This is our first time being with this group, you know, 7 or 8 new, new guys on our team between transfers and freshmen.

So we're just learning how to win and that takes time. So I like our kids. We got some good people in our locker room. Those guys are, you know, they're competitors, they're tough, and they just want to win, man. So I think that, you know, as we're learning each other and growing together, you know, we'll continue to get better.

So I'm looking forward to a great season.

And you talked about the importance of late game execution briefly just before, you know, before everything started breaking down in our pre-chat. But what is the importance of that? Like being able to close games? And not only that, how do you as a coach, as the assistant coach, show up to practice, you know, after those tough losses?

All right, this is what we're going to do so this doesn't happen again.

Yeah, late game is so important because the game, you know, you got your 40 minutes in the game. So the first, you know, 16 minutes, first half, second half. Goes back and forth however the game is going. But the little execution down the stretch, the details, attention to details is so important.

That's what wins and loses games. But I think as a coach coaching 18 to 22-year-old kids, you come in, you talk about what you need to do to get better, and then you move on, man. It's a long season. You can dwell on it.

You just can't let one loss lead to another loss. So I think it's important to, you know, find what you guys are doing well and what you guys didn't do well. Work on the execution and then just move on to the next game, man, because you got to have a short memory because the games come, they come pretty fast.

And is that you in the player's ears? Like, you know, the mistake is like almost 1 in 1,000 kind of, you know, dribbling the ball off the foot. So is that you in their ears? Like, you know, don't worry about it. It's going to happen.

Let's move on from it because they must be even more down on themselves than, you know, even coaches get.

Yeah, they feel even worse because they know, you know, as much as, you know, as a coach, you take accountability. For the loss, I think it's important when those guys, you know, they look at themselves and they're like, man, you know, so it hurts, right?

You know, that's part of your job as a coach. You know, coaches, when you're a coach, you're ushering a kid. So, you know, when kids come in, it's almost like college is almost like a transformation chamber. I don't know if people remember, you know, Steve Urkel with Family Matters, but you come in, you start in high school, you're a boy, you come into college.

And then when you leave college, you know, you're a man. So this whole Transformation is happening. And your job as a coach is to usher these kids through, rather they're here with you for a year, 2 years, 3 years, or 4 years. You try to do your best to usher them through.

That's part of being a coach. So it's not all just, you know, roses and sweet days. I mean, some hard days and some of those hard days, that's where you really got to lock into the guys and really help them because they feel like crap too.

Yeah. And as someone that's been through that experience, I guess they can count on you a lot more. than maybe some of the other coaches that didn't play, you know, college basketball and didn't share in those same experiences.

Yeah, absolutely. I've screwed up plenty of games, right? And I know how I feel. You know, you got a big, big sign on your face when you walk out. You want to put your hood down. You want to put your head down. You don't want to show up to class the next day, but you got to do it, right?

It's part of, it's part of life. It's part of the adversity that you're going to face in life because, you know, you're going to have some tough times once you graduate too. I think that's one of my biggest things of, hey man, you got to move on from this.

Can't let this impact you because it could snowball. Like one game could snowball into another and losing and then another one and losing. But in life, it could snowball to an addiction, drugs, alcohol, whatever the case may be. So a lot of the life lessons and adversities that these guys learn here, you know, in college, they can apply to their real life as they, you know, get older.

Yeah, no, I agree completely. And it's just like the importance of sports in young people's life because it just teaches them so many life lessons where it's not as serious as, you know, actually life itself. You can make mistakes, you can lose games, and then you can, you know, come back and learn from those, learn from that heartbreak, from that failure in a safe environment.

And, you know, it's just the importance of being in that kind of safe space that sports allows players to be in.

To that point, that's important. You got, you have to provide a safe space. And the reason you do is because they have social media. And after the game, those kids go and they type in their name and, you know, you got people in their DMs telling them that they suck and they're not good enough and how could you do this and all kinds of stuff like that.

So, you know, you gotta try to do your best to protect them and to, like you say, provide a safe space.

Man, that is crazy. Imagine, like, that's just, you know, I didn't even ever think about it from a player's perspective like that. You know, you're a freshman coming in, 18 years old, and someone's getting into your DMs like that. Let's pivot a little bit and just go back to your experience at DeMatha.

How did that shape you as a coach? And then of course, more specifically, player development, your player development philosophy. And what's the biggest difference in how you teach skills to a high schooler versus a college player?

Okay. That's, that's a loaded question. I'm gonna do my best to answer it. DeMatha is a place, you know, DeMatha is, it talks about gentlemen and scholars, right? So DeMatha has such a holistic approach to it. So I kind of take that for my philosophy.

And the things I kind of, you know, feel are important is, you know, being unselfish, playing and giving maximum effort and holding yourself, you know, accountable and holding your teammates accountable. The whole leadership piece of it. DeMatha is a different kind of place.

It's a place where, you know, you go and they kind of meet you where you are, but you don't stay there in terms of, you know, who you are and who you're trying to become. So I think that's in my philosophy. I try to do the same thing here, like, and not just at Boston College, but in life.

Like, everybody is not, you know, I'm not going to meet the perfect person. You know, these kids, all everybody, I have issues. These kids have issues. So when you talking about your philosophy, your philosophy is, again, it's holistic, right? You want to develop the person.

You want to develop the player too, because obviously it helps you win. But I think if you develop the person first, the player blossoms. So I think that's my philosophy. I am a grassroots person at heart. I drove the vans and I just came from a grassroots type of deal.

So I never lose that. I never lose that aspect here.

I heard in the other podcast I listened to, it was like, you, you know, you came back from overseas and immediately started coaching grassroots. So you literally, as soon as you kind of finished playing, went straight to coaching.

Yeah, just so in college, I finished in college, I was supposed to go overseas. The contract fell through, but I went right into coaching because, you know, because I loved it and I wanted to be, you know, still part of the game. But I don't think the development from high school to college, it changes.

And the reason that don't change is because you can't run away from the fundamentals. You can't run away from the basics. You can't run away from the things that got you to college, right? So whether it's physical from form shooting to, you know, your footwork, all those kinds of things, that stays the same.

If you look at, you know, Steph and some of the best players in the NBA, they do some of the most basic things that 4th and 5th graders do. So I think from a development standpoint, everything is the same. I think the biggest difference is from high school to college is guys in college are just bigger, faster, stronger.

That's the only difference, you know. So you do all the training and everything is the same, but those guys, like I said, those guys are just bigger.

And then like to focus in on that one player at the math, specifically Markelle Fultz. What did his skill development journey actually look like? You know, you talked about players having bad games, feeling bad for themselves. If you take that journey and you kind of like, just to summarize it, you know, here now, how did that look like his development journey?

And how did you help him develop as a player?

I think for Markelle, I would say his development journey, the word I would use is patient. Markelle Fultz, he came in as a freshman, played on a freshman basketball team. Sophomore year, we cut him from varsity. He played on the JV team. And then he, you know, he became one of the best players in the country.

So it shows our evaluation skills, but he never doubted himself and he never showed any— he was never, how do you say, he was never pouty. He was never moody. It wasn't a day where he came in on the freshman team, on the JV team, thought he was better than everybody.

It was never a time where he came in and like, hey, I don't belong here. Like he just worked. He focused on the fundamentals, but he also had a mom who was extremely supportive that would drive him everywhere, which would sit in the car and wait for him after practice and workouts and those kinds of things.

And he just stayed faithful, you know, to his grind. And, you know, that's his hashtag now. He stayed faithful to that. And I've never seen anything like that. I've never been a part of anything like that. I was fortunate to be a part of his journey.

journey, but I've never seen anything like that from somebody who goes from unranked to the number 1 player or top 5 player in the country and then the number 1 draft pick. So he just stayed patient. I know he stayed prayed up. I know he's a very faithful kid, a man now, but at the time he was a very faithful kid, but he never wavered on what he believed in himself.

Yeah. And hopefully he'll come back, you know, stronger than ever. I'm a fan personally of his game. And I think a lot of his, you know, his basketball IQ from a young age has always been there. So hopefully he'll get better and get back to being that.

He had, he had some good flashes there in Orlando as well.

Yeah, man. Praying for him and his family. And he's an unbelievable person, unbelievable father. He runs camps back at DeMathis. So it's just somebody you root for.

Yeah. And your head coach praised your ability to connect with players. Practically, what does that look like? I know the first thing you mentioned here before we got on this conversation was like, You're hoping the players feel okay. It's like, you know, you put the players first, but what is that like practically?

How do you check in with players? How do you find ways to connect?

So I think it's a few ways. And Coach Grant has given me way more praise than I deserve, and I appreciate for that. But I think it's just finding a little time, finding little nuggets rather. It's, you know, I bring guys over my house to have dinner, try to go to breakfast with a guy.

It's hard to connect with everybody to the level that you need to. But, you know, something as small as film session, I bring a kid in for a film session, I'd help with the offense here. I bring a kid in for a film session and I'd say the first 5 minutes before we even watch film is, how you doing?

What's going on? How's your family? How's your mom? How's your dad? And you remember something that's going on in their life. And then you connect with them right there. Because at the end of the day, if they know that you care, they'll go through a wall for you.

But if they don't, then, you know, you're screwed. So I think it's things like that. I think it's, you know, when you go on the road and you go to hotels, you pull a guy to the side here and there.

Yeah.

You find out, you know, what somebody's favorite, whatever their favorite thing is, and you just connect and you talk about it. And, you know, all these kids, they're into social media, they're into music. So you try to stay up on your hip-hop or whatever, whatever, you know, pop or rock or country, whatever it is.

So you just try to connect in those ways. And I just try to see if I can touch everybody in some way throughout the whole week. Like whether it's, whether it's just phone check-ins or we have this thing here called Your Boss Guy.

So I got 4 guys that I'm responsible for academically, athletically, and socially. So I make sure, you know, we go over, hey, you know, how you doing in school? What's going on in school? Do you need extra tutoring? You know, just all those kind of things.

You just organically make it happen. And when that's the type of person you are, it's not a forced thing. You know, even when those guys are stretching, you'll go to a guy, hey man, what's going on? How you doing? You know, talk trash to him, whatever the case may be.

So you just try to be as organic as possible and care about these kids.

Find a laugh and also learn about what they do. Great point. It's like people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. So you just showed them consistently, I think, breathes life to that. You talked about, you know, you were involved in the offense there at Boston College.

I want to talk about specifically about the horn set, super popular set becoming— I feel like it's becoming even more and more popular. You know, if the numbers on that, if that is true or not, maybe it's just kind of like what I'm seeing anyway.

But when you're teaching that set, I want to ask you, like, what are some reads?

Yeah.

So I think one of the, you know, one of the biggest things and one of the main things that I think this triggers a lot of offenses, when those guys are in a horn set, you know, you either can go off with a 4 or a 5, depending on what you're trying to do.

So let's just say for now, you go off with a 5 man, right? And the reason you go off with a 5 man is because you want to see if you're going to put them in coverage. And coverage is this, there's only a few ways to guard a ball screen.

You can hedge it, you can drop, you can switch it, you can flash, show quick scratch and get out of there. So for us, or for me, you know, you kind of want to go off of the 5-man side. And then 9 times out of 10, you want to roll them, right?

You want to roll them to the rim and see if you can get what we call a throwback to the 4 guy. Because what happens is that opposite corner. So let's just say, you know, we in a horn set and the 5 is on the right and the 4 is on the left.

Mm-hmm.

Not their right, but my right, because I'm the point guard. When I come off of that 5, I am reading what we call the tag. The tag, or not the tag, or the MIG. The MIG is usually what we call the most important guy.

He's probably a low guy. So I want to see what does that MIG do now, or tag, or whatever you want to call it. So when you come off, if that 5 rolls and he rolls into the MIG, your first read should be to skip Opposite.

Because once 2, once you get 2 to play the ball, your job has been done. You got to get off of it at that point. You can't hold on to it and wait and wait and wait. 2 play the ball, get off of it.

If that big tag, if he comes over, you want to skip opposite to that corner guy, which 9 times out of 10 is going to be a shooter. If he stays home and 2 play the ball, you can hit the 5 man on the roll.

If not, if you can't get, you Either one, you can throw it back to the 4, and that 4 man is looking top down with that 5 trying to bury his man right in the middle of the rim. So those are kind of the, you know, the tags that you're looking for.

It's the opposite corner will come over and squeeze in to help, typically.

That's great. I always say the toughest 2 passes to make, that pocket pass to the roller and that skip pass. If you don't get anything from that out of the horn set, you're just continuing your offense, whatever that is, whether it's continuation or So I can suck it up.

Yeah, something simple that people can do is, so the first thing you do is 2 play the ball. If you can hit the short roll, so you get 2 on the ball, 5 man, you short roll, you hit the short roll. At that point, you want the guy who tagged, or you want your mid, you'll have that guy corner cut, and the opposite 4 can kind of stay where he wants, or he can just stay wide, depending on how you think it is.

But if you don't have it, and you throw back to your 4 man, your 4 man looks down to shoot. He doesn't have it. That corner guy who's got a tag, he can sprint up to the wing. You can throw it to him.

A few things can happen. That 4 man that threw it to him, you can go immediately ball screen. 5 man stays opposite, or 4 man swings it to that wing and 4 and 1 stagger away, and the 5 man follows the basketball to see if you can try to get the basketball in the paint, or you got a shooter coming off of a stagger.

Love it. Love it. That's great. It's almost like a mini masterclass of that, the offensive horn set there. Obviously lots of different things you can do with it. I think that's great. In terms of defending it now, how would you defend it? Let's say that guard's coming off that same right, you know, pick and roll.

So for me, if I had my point guard was tough enough, big enough, I would like to switch it. And the reason I would like to switch is because I want to do my best to try to stay out of rotations. I don't want to bring 2 to the ball.

Some people do, you can, but I would like to switch it. So when you switch it, there is no MIG, there is no tag, everybody stays home. But if you bring, like I said, if you bring 2 to the ball, now you got to get in rotations, you zone up.

But if not, I would like to be able to switch it. If my 5 can guard a guard, or at least keep them in front, and my point can switch on to a 5, at least front and fight. And do his best to keep it out the post.

If he rolls them and gets buried behind, I'm in trouble. But I would like to switch it. I would like like-sized guys to be able to switch to that.

Love it.

And what if you, so let's say, you know, you're coaching this team and you're switching, but then, you know, team's killing you. They're making that throwback pass and, you know, getting it to the 5-man bearing that one in the paint. What kind of adjustments would you make then?

So you could be in drop, right? So now you're playing a ball screen 2-on-2 and you're trying to see if the point guard, you're trying to force the guard to make a tough 2, right? So you'll be in drop, the corner guys will stay home.

And the reason they stay home is because you don't want to give up a 3. The 4-man, depending on that 4-man, if he can shoot, he kind of stays home. And it's just a 2-on-2. And that point guard has to over and over and over make a floater or play that 2-man game, you know, with that 5.

So that's kind of how I would do it. Some people impact the basketball and try to send it to half court. That's another great option. You kind of just blitz that point guard. So the 5-man come up, you blitz him. He can't even see anything and you zone it up.

That's good too. So I think it just depends on the personnel. If you have a very mobile 5-man, that wants to get out and hedge ball screens and blitz it, you blitz it, you make that guard pick it up. Or if you got a shot blocking guy, you sink, you drop, you keep him at the rim and you make that point guard make a tough 2.

That's great. It's like a lot of it is like who your personnel is.

Personnel. Yep. Who you're playing against, who you have.

And I guess your whole base defense goes back to what your personnel is. You know, if you've got a player, because you're not, every defense has attacks, but then if you were going to have a team, a defensive team that can do certain things really well, you want to play to their strengths.

Defensively, yes, yes, yes. Like if my big is mobile and he can get out and scratch at the ball and get back, you know you might hedge. You know if he's a little less mobile, maybe you want to sink him and you know drop.

Or if he's just shot blocky, you want to keep him by the rim. You know it just depends. Or if he's a tween or five and he can guard a guard, then you switch it, gap up, and you kind of play like that way.

Love it. That's great. Thanks for that. About a little bit. All right. So. You spoke a little bit about how you develop high school and college players, saying it was the same. Do you see any differences tactically when players come from high school to college?

What are some of those key, you know, just talked about the Horn set. What are some of those nuances of the game, of the principles of play on the offense and defense that they have to learn?

I think offensively, you know, you're probably looking at it like we just, I'm reading the tags, right? Because these things happen quick. These guys, they're great athletes. They're fast. They're big. So you got to read the tag quickly. If I come off, if I'm a point guard in my high school or, you know, I'm going to college for the first time, if I'm coming up, I need to read, I need to know where that ball is going.

If they bring 2 to the ball and we're short rolling, I need to get the ball out of my hands quick as possible. If it's a Redan drop, I need to be able to negotiate that ball screen, you know, get in the paint, hesi, hesi, hesi, make that big step up, drop it to my big.

If that big keeps sinking, work on my floater. So I just think, I think it's reading the tags and knowing where the guys are. Also, if they bring 2 to the ball and I can get off of it, I got to be able to make that skip pass.

So I just think some of the adjustments of the reading of the tags and those kinds of things, I think offensively, you know, and just staying in that horn set, I think offensively that's important.

Would you say offensively most of that adjustment then is in the pick and roll?

Yeah, most of it is, uh, I would say pick and roll. And I would just say, I would say decisions, quick decisions. You know, we in college, and I'm sure they do it in high school, we call it 0.5. You got to make a 0.5 decision.

When the ball gets to you, there is no holding it and dribbling 8 times to get you into your bag and you call for the ball screen. No, the ball gets swung to you. Somebody close out, it's a shot, it's a rip, it's a one more.

It's not much thought after that behind it. So I think those decisions are quick decisions. And the reason I think, and I know the high school kids are smart coming in, I just think the closeouts and the defensive flying around, you're just dealing with a bigger athlete.

Yeah.

Potentially than what you did in high school. And then I think defensively, some of the things are, you know, your rotations, rotating over. If you're a team that's a help side basketball team and you fire over and somebody flooding down, I think just the defensive rotations is the biggest thing, I think, for those guys.

No, that's, that's well said. I think it's, you know, the game's so much faster at every level you get up, you know, as you grow and get higher and higher. And you're seeing it now in the league. You know, you see it every year.

I think rookies come in and it just takes a little bit of time to adjust. It's just, you know, it's just part of the game, especially from high school to college, especially D1. I think the, you know, you're playing against, you know, 20, 22, 23-year-olds.

It's going to take some time to adjust. It's definitely a learning period for sure.

Absolutely. Absolutely. You're 100% right.

And recruiting, like, what does it— you know, you spoke about, you know, the cutting Markelle Fultz from the JB team. At the method, but in recruiting, what does talent evaluation look like for you now with Boston College? How do you weigh their production, especially with the transfer portal, right?

But even guys from high school, how do you, how do you guys weigh for, you know?

I think it's 5 factors we try to look at: size and skill at the position, your athleticism, the intangibles, and then your IQ, right? So we'll go to the size of the position. Like, do you have the positional size to compete? Do you have the positional skill?

You know, pass, dribble, shoot. Can you make a shot? I think that's important. Your motor and your athleticism is something that you— that can't be taught. So, you know, long athletic guys who got a high motor, I think, you know, that's important. And then intangibles, like, you know, the winning piece.

Are you a me guy? Is it a situation where, you know, you need 10 to 15 shots to be effective? Can you affect the game without taking a shot? Can you defend it? Are you gonna be a glue guy? Like, are you pouty?

Like, You know, your body language. How are you? How do you respond to your teammates? How do you respond when things don't go well? What kind of teammate are you? How do you run off the bench? How do you talk to your coach?

How do you talk to the refs? I think all that kind of stuff is important. And that's what you look at, you know, in evaluations. And then I think that, you know, just your IQ, like your understanding of basketball. Again, we talked about 0.5 decisions.

You got to be able to make decisions. And if you don't have a feel for the game, it's going to be really difficult at this level and at any level right now to play, especially with You know, the way that, you know, the European players are coming over, overseas guys.

Now those guys know how to play. Like they're reading the tags and they just know what to do. So just try to make sure that we're on target for what we're trying to do.

And now you're seeing a lot more European players in college basketball because of the NIL. And I think it's awesome. And I think it's so cool to see. And it's just, you know, better competition in the college game to help prepare players for the pro game when they get there.

I think it's awesome. Those 5 nuggets are awesome. Thanks for sharing that. You spoke about, you know, having that kind of leadership quality. And you're kind of older. Do you think you're college captain at Wagner? Do you believe there's a skill you can teach, or is it something guys just have?

You know, the natural-born leaders are, you know, that's a gift that God gave you, and those guys are special, right? But I think it's very similar to a muscle. Like, you know, some people are just, they're naturally big-boned or they're naturally stocky, right?

And there's some people who aren't, but they build their muscle to get bigger. I think it's the same thing. I think If leadership is something that you have a passion for that you want to do and you're just maybe not naturally a leader, I do think you can, you know, with podcasts now and reading books, I think you can improve that skill.

While it may take you a little longer, I do like it. There are kids on our team who aren't natural born leaders, but, you know, you give them responsibilities and you force them out of their comfort zone. And once you force people out of their comfort zone, that's typically when you grow.

And I think guys, you know, can grow that way and become leaders. And some guys don't even realize they're leaders because they've always been in a following role, or they always been in a role that didn't require them to have to step out.

You never know who you're going to be when you're forced to do something that, you know, you may be uncomfortable with, or that just doesn't come natural. So I do think that you can get better. I think you can build that muscle.

There's hope for everyone.

I agree. I think so.

That's great. I think you've given so much, you know, unique perspective on all these questions I've asked. I do want to ask you before I let you get out of here, Corey, one last question, transformative tip. We ask all our guests this. What is one piece of advice?

Maybe it's something you've already said. Maybe it's something you haven't that you would give to a coach or a player that would instantly improve the quality of their, you know, their game.

Okay. So for a player that can increase, I would probably 2 things. I think something that's going, not underrated or whatever, but like coaches are looking for guys that can defend. Coaches are looking for guys that can play without the basketball. Like everybody has a trainer, you know, everybody just goes in the gym and shoots and I get all that.

But like, what else can you do when you don't have the basketball? Right. I think that's important. The IQ standpoint of the study and the glue guys, like those guys are so important. I just think that that's not just a market out there, but I just think that it's a situation where That you can improve by studying the game, learning, and say, you know what, hey man, I may not be a big-time scorer.

I'm going to be the toughest, grittiest. I'm a big defender. I'm going to lock my guy up. I'm going to be in the best shape of anybody. So I think being in shape is important. And for a coach that's trying to improve, obviously studying the game and learning from, like, if I can, I think I'm going to start Rick Pitino's book at some point from a long time ago.

I forgot what it was, but I think I want to, you know, read one of his books. I mean, I'm just going to continue to learn from other coaches. I think that's important. I think watching other coaches practice and just picking people's brains, I think those things are important because you kind of like isolated and stuck into what you think.

But once you start hearing other ideas and other ways people do it, I think you grow. So I just think you got to continue to grow and never say, hey, I figured it all out. I know everything.

And growth is uncomfortable. I think that's the whole point of it. But you definitely have to, you know, put yourself in that environment to Absolutely.

Absolutely. I got, you know, I'm very fortunate. Quanzo Martin is the guy that's, you know, not took me under my wing, but he's helping me grow. And I pick his brain all the time from the most minute things to things that may be a little more complex in that form.

So I'm just fortunate in that area. And I just would recommend everybody get you a mentor, get you people that you'll listen to, you know, surrender yourself, surrender yourself. So you can grow. And I would tell everybody this too, just remember, there is no elevator to success.

We all have to take the stairs.

Yeah. And that's something I've been seeing it a lot, but like being the fool at not being a fool, but the fool in terms of not knowing any, like walking into a situation with open mind where you don't know anything. So you can actually learn as much as possible instead of the other way around.

Absolutely. 100%. 100%.

Corey, thank you so much. It's been a great conversation. I really enjoyed speaking with you today.

George, I appreciate you, man. And you got a wonderful podcast. I look forward to seeing you grow, getting all everything that you want out of life. Appreciate you.

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