A New Chapter with George Vaz

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Hi and hello. Welcome back to the Transforming Basketball Podcast. I'm Admiral Mashinsky. For the last time, I will be opening up in that fashion. I'm going to take a step back from the podcast. I've really appreciated my time, but I've just started a master's in strength and conditioning.

And to really give the podcast justice, I just simply do not have enough time to give the guests and give thorough research to the people I'm researching and put together a quality product for those out there listening. So I wanted to take a step back at this time and really focus on my education and strength and conditioning and pass it over to somebody else to take over hosting duties.

So I'll let Alex introduce that person.

Absolutely. Before we go on to that, Adam, I think it would be great for you to share actually what it is you're doing and what your master's is going to be on.

My master's is in strength conditioning and coaching practice. It's actually through a very famous track and field organization called Altus. They're very systems-oriented and they're very familiar. We just had like a little coursework on ecological dynamics, so pretty thorough education. It'll be about a year and a half, and after that I'll just have options to

expand my coaching role beyond the court.

It's funny, we're actually— I'm hoping to pop into Altus next week when we're in Phoenix. But you've done an amazing job holding down the fort, Adam. And I think it's always cool to see what Transforming everyone involved keeps going on to really cool things, which is exactly what I wanted when we started this.

So we have George Vaz joining us right here on the podcast, and I'm really excited to announce George as our new host. And it took me several weeks to decide because we first started talking about this a month ago when you realized the workload, Adam.

And there are lots of different options we could have taken this in. I think interest in transforming is as high as it's ever been. You know, it's easy to say that, but George is really someone that to me is the perfect example of what a coach can be when you really commit yourself to the transforming principles and this way of viewing the game and coaching.

And it was only a year and a half ago where George didn't know about CLA, and now he's a professional coach. So with no further ado, George, it's a pleasure to have you here on the podcast.

Thank you for that introduction. It's great to be here. I look forward to being a part of hosting the podcast and learning from all the amazing guests. I love the direction that the podcast has gone. And also, Adam, I think that your PhD is perfect for you, literally tailor-made for what you want to do.

100% agree. So, I want to start with this. The listeners and the many coaches out there may not realize, George, that we were roommates for a whole year when we were working in London, which was only last season. And that was obviously one of the main reasons why I feel very confident and comfortable making this decision because we literally had 24/7 talking these ideas right from morning till night when you make scrambled eggs for me in the breakfast.

Yeah.

And then at night when we'd finish, you know, talking about all of this stuff. So that was a big part of it.

I heard like the first episodes ever recorded. I was like, obviously, like, you know, through the walls. And then I was just like, oh, that's such an interesting conversation they're having over there. It's cool to be on this side now.

We're going to talk a lot today about what we actually did in London, because I think that's a great way for all our coaches around the world to get to know you. But George, you got a really unique story in terms of Brazilian heritage, raised in the US, moved to England at a young age.

So tell us a little bit about you in a nutshell and just kind of where you are now with your, you know, if you can mix in your basketball and coaching journey into that, that would be great before we get to the real stuff.

Yeah, in a nutshell, like you said, born in Brazil, didn't play basketball there, moved to America, and then I started playing when I was 11. I was on a call the other day with Ayesha Curry and she said something And it was, it was something along the lines of, oh, how long have you been a coach?

And she was like, oh, I've been a coach for as long as I played basketball. And looking back, I feel like I've always been like that as well. Like, even though I started playing at the age of 10, 11, I feel like I've always been a coach.

I've always had that kind of mentality, like making other people better. So fast forward, played there. I actually lived a year in Ireland, played in Ireland, and then I moved to the UK, played there. And then I got into coaching. I think the year after I moved to the UK, just coaching at schools, and I did not like it.

It was hard to like control the kids. It was like a PE class. It was like in the middle of the day. They just want to run around and cause havoc. And obviously I'm just like, get in the layup lines and, you know, this is how you do it.

So it was an interesting experience. And I did that, stopped after that season, and then I picked it up again a few years ago for a team. And then obviously, like you said, we worked together at Lions, and that's when I got introduced to the CLA.

And Just to backtrack a little bit, lived in Slovenia a little bit, and that's when we first got introduced when I was studying to be a coach. And that was great because then that was literally just learn from different coaches all over the world.

And that experience was amazing.

George, I want to build on that because it's a really cool idea from the listeners. So this was Vanja Cernjevec's idea. So Vanja, of course, was in the book Transforming Basketball. She's now the president of the Valkyries, the newest WNBA team. Obviously, it's part of the Golden State Warriors organization.

But Vanja has obviously always got some great ideas. And so essentially what this was, when she was starting the London Lions Academy— this was before I joined— Vanya selected 3 coaches who she was really invested in, George being one of those 3. And you guys went for how long abroad?

Was it 3 months?

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, to get a full immersion into a professional academy and see what it liked— what it was like to be a full-time coach in Europe. So that was really cool, and that was when I started training you guys. Yeah, I introduced you to CLA.

We did the first workshops, all of that. So before I pass over to Adam, because I want to ask Adam about his first experience working with you back in, I think it was October last season, but essentially I did a series of 4 workshops, you guys, this time 2 years ago.

And that was the first time I ever met you on Zoom. You had never heard about this. What was your first reaction?

Man, I was trying to call you out because the first thing you said was like, there's no such thing as muscle memory. And I was like, yeah, but And then I started giving examples and it was, yeah, it was an interesting conversation. I think once you told us and like kind of opened the door and I started doing my own research, that's when I was like, ah, this stuff is, this is a gold mine right here.

This is really cool.

Love it. And you really got my respect, George, when I saw like every, basically every 2 days you were reading a new paper in London and you were coming to questions, ideas. And that was like, you know, 'cause not many people then are willing to do their own research.

'Cause it's one thing listening to it, but then it's kind of another thing going into it for yourself and actually discovering, thinking about it versus just being told it. So Adam, I'd love to transition this a little bit to some of the work we did in London because I called you, I think it was a few days ago, we were playing in Charlotte and we had a great conversation just about the things we did last season and the things we missed about it.

So do you want to just talk a little bit about that and kind of some of the stuff you were helping with the coaches? Because obviously people might not realize that I was bringing you in as a consultant to help our academy coaches.

Yeah, I guess what I'm curious, George, is because I have the experience of working with Alex in Italy, and sure, I did some consulting here and there with the Lions, but I kind of want to know, and I'm sure the coaches want to know, walk us through like a typical day-to-day with the London Lions.

What was your role? What kind of interactions did you have with Alex? And then how did that facilitate down to the players themselves?

Oh man, it was a full— like, it was a lot, to be quite honest. It was fully— and I, and I mean that in the best possible way. Like, there's a lot of learning that goes on to it. And I think with Alex, he really takes the fluff out of everything.

So when you take away the fluff, it's a lot of actual work that is really gratifying as well. So, you know, we'll have like a morning meeting, morning catch-up, usually around logistics. Sometimes it would be about principles of play with the youth teams as well.

Then we'd have an afternoon practice. In the afternoon, when we have the time between that practice and the evening practice, We would talk more specifically about principles of play. We'd have workshops. There would be guests that came in to deliver workshops on strength and conditioning, nutrition, things of that nature.

So—

People from all over the world, people from New Zealand, like the US, the UK. Anytime someone interesting was visiting London, it was really cool.

Yeah. And that was like, it's crazy because, I mean, I say this for myself, I really took it for granted, not for granted because I applied myself as best as I could, but just imagine like, oh, it's always going to be like this.

People are always going to invest in your knowledge, right? So I'm like, oh, this is great. But it's not the way it is. So I like the London Lions experience was amazing just because of all that we learned, not only in the workshops and all that, but at practice.

It was really cool to be around such amazing coaches, Liam, Will, yourself, and just learn every single day.

I guess the follow-up would be like, how did Alex conduct himself in those practices? Was he jumping in? And how much space did he give you to kind of do your own thing in these practices?

Alex is great. He's great because you'll do something at practice and then Especially for me, I was like, oh, I don't know if that's true. Alex, what do you think? And he's always like, yeah, that's great. That's great. So he's, he always assures you that it's great.

So I'm like, oh, I can do no wrong. But I think that really helps. And I remember one of the things on my coaching development plan was think outside the box. So create exercises and games where, where it's different. Like, 'cause, 'cause I'm like, okay, I don't want to go, I don't want to push the boundaries too much.

But Alex was like, no, push it. Like, let's go all the way in. And I think that was really helpful for him to always phrase things in a way like Oh, that's great. What could be better? But like, never like, oh, let's not try that again kind of thing.

So that was really helpful in my development for sure.

Give me an example of you pushing the boundaries, George.

It was just like scoring systems. I would invent random games. I remember I've done so many things that just didn't work, but then vice versa, a lot of things that do work up to this day as well. Like even today at practice, we— I played basketball, baseball, and we've done this in London, but in London it's a lot easier because I could just go, these are the rules.

They know baseball rules, whereas in Portugal it's not that popular a sport. It doesn't get around here. So then I explained it, but, you know, they didn't grasp it. But then it's also a thing of like, okay, I'm not gonna stop it, I'm just gonna let them play.

And then you could see some of them like started to interact with the game a bit differently than others. And it was an interesting— it was an interesting thing. But honestly, I, I don't know, I can't give you any one example, but I just— every day that I'm on the court, like, even like I saw a You know, the lines on the court, and it was like a plus sign.

And I was like, I wonder if you stood on that and you tried to pivot on each square on each side of that line, and you had another player dribbling, and then the person that was pivoting puts one foot on one square, and then the dribbler has to dribble in that square.

Like, would that be a good game to teach, like, you know, jabs and stuff, or like, you know, just pivoting? But we didn't get a chance to try it tonight. But yeah, just always kind of like thinking outside the box.

I love that. George, talk us through, because you mentioned the coach development plan. I thought that was really interesting. Yeah, everyone on the podcast now is familiar with the concept of a PDP. We call it a player development plan. So we've spoken about that quite a bit, but talk us through kind of what a CDP looks like and, you know, the kind of the way we presented it.

We did it twice in the year. So I think it was after the first month or 2, I think, after the first month. And it was basically like, what are your strengths as a coach? So there would be strengths, building blocks, and areas for improvement.

So it'd be, I believe at that time, I can't remember off the top of my head, but 2 to 3 things in each thing. What were my strengths, you know, areas for improvement and building blocks? And I think it was really powerful because one, you put it on paper.

Anytime you put your thoughts on paper, it's easier to understand and, you know, organize them. But then 2, it was a way for all the coaches to hold each other accountable as to what they needed to do at practice, whether it's like, oh, you need to call your players out when they're not listening to you when you're explaining a drill.

Or, you know, this is something really good. You bring a lot of energy to practice. So like, keep doing that. Be consistent. So, you know, it was just a way to be like, to hold each other accountable. But not just one-to-one. It was all the coaches held each other accountable.

And I think that was awesome.

I've got a follow-up before I pass over to Ab. You were head coach on the 16 girls team, George. I think this is really great because something we're really going to be intentional about with Transforming is sharing more girls, women's basketball content, whether that's the WNBA or just more coaching videos, you know, showing work on the girls' side of the game.

So really glad that obviously you're hosting this now because you spent a lot of time working win both girls and boys basketball. But let's talk about principles of play that, you know, I think under-16s, that's perfect. That's very similar for all the high school coaches we have listening to this.

Talk us through some of the principles of play and maybe some of the biggest problems that we had that we discovered with the team throughout the year in terms of things we couldn't get them to do, and then maybe how we resolved that, how we solved it throughout the season.

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Well, one that comes to the top of my mind is, well, just starting off with principles of play, we ran a lot of pick and roll, right? So we had pick and roll, had some screenaways as well, but 80% of the offense was pick and roll, trying to create an advantage on that.

What would happen is teams would pressure us and, you know, under-16 girls, the team at the time couldn't deal with the pressure, would turn the ball over. So the way we did it, we looked at that, and this is, you know, just one example.

It was every game that we would play at practice, whether it was a 2-on-2, 3-on-3, We would start 5 seconds handling pressure as an example, like, you know, different things like that.

Yeah.

To focus on targeting that rate limiter for our team. And then the next EYBL tournament, so we had the first EYBL tournament, and then over time as we played our next games, you could see that the girls didn't turn the ball over. And, you know, it's crazy because it was the first year of the, of the academy, and those girls had never played outside of the UK, so the competition was different.

So we'd have games like A lot of turnovers, a lot of turnovers. But over time, you would see the turnovers go down and down, especially the unforced turnovers, or the turnovers where they're just dribbling and, you know, run into 2 defenders. So those are like some things that we did to deal with the handling ball pressure.

But we'd have full-court press, we'd call 100, to be 100 on. I mean, there's so many things that we use principles of play. The main thing is that with offense, especially the red offense, it was Triggers. So we only use triggers for our red offense, and then we would combine triggers sometimes on a dead ball because at that age I think it's more important for them to create the advantage and be comfortable creating the advantage than to memorizing these patterns.

But more importantly, how can I see the pocket pass and make the pocket pass? How can I see that help defender coming through to take away the pocket pass and make the skip pass? And then it's interesting as well with the younger age group because They don't have the strength, some of them, to make that skip pass over the top.

So, you know, what are like, what can we do? What are some solutions? So it was interesting to deal with that age group.

Sorry to cut you off, but you just got me in my head thinking about this. So we obviously play with, we had 3 pick and roll spacings, I think maybe 4. So we had Rob, yeah, we had Rob in the middle, so 2 side behind, single side ahead.

And for the coaches listening, we were just, all of these would be one syllable. So We'd literally flow down the court, see it was neutral, and then the ball handler would just be calling this based on the spacing. So, you know, scanning, seeing where teammates were, and then we just flow into it.

So it was rub. Side was our pick and roll on the side, but with the 2 side ahead of us. So as that handler comes off the pick, they're facing the 2 side with the single side behind them in the corner. We then had clear, which was empty corner, 3 side ahead, and then we'd try and bring the ball lower, kind of below the free throw line.

So more room to reject, lots of room, and then lots of room for the roller. Obviously no help And then there was angle. I think our last one was basically a step-up, that single-side corner coming out of it. Those were our 4 basics.

And that was, as George says, that was 80% of the offense. But we were so good because we just had our coverage solutions again. And at that age group, it was pretty much all switching or drop that we saw. That was it. So we just got really good.

Yeah.

Crack and slip, reject, flip, relay pass. The relay passes were amazing. And that was something we found because a lot of the times the defenders would just collapse completely and tag, and the players didn't have to strength to make that skip pass. So we did actually— we worked on it a lot all year where we would just play like a 1, where there'd basically be a defender and you had to make the skip pass against the defender with a shooter in the corner.

You get a point if you threw a strike zone pass to their hand. A good way— that's a good example of task simplification. So they'd come off a pick and roll, the defender would switch onto them, so stimulating the picker's defender switching onto the handler, and then they had to make the skip pass against pressure with the defender trying to steal it.

Get the perfect strike zone. So that was the activity I thought of when you were just talking about that with the skips. But yeah, we just got so good at that and the coverage solutions out of it, and then hit gets, and that was it.

And I mean, for the coaches to this, I do, I do recommend our Pick and Roll Offense course. It's, it's literally got all of this stuff that we did with the Lions, but that's all you need at high school. Just less triggers, but do it really well.

And then of course, you know, hit your Shot Spectrum, gold and silver, pretty much gold and silver medals only. Hit your transition offense, your transition defense, your half-court defense, and then you're in good shape. And I think too, like you said on the pressing, just the more we pressed aggressively, just naturally the better we got offensively handling.

Yeah.

So that was a key thing, just like in pick and roll. I think at the start of the year, they're playing against bad coverages, like very soft switches, and then started really showing, all right, you got to control the screener. Your job is to push the screener into their teammate handling, and then if it's a good switch, you're going to get both feet outside the 3-point line.

That's how we it's aggressive. And we'd do things like, yeah, or 2 points if it wasn't a good switch. And then just that, you know, as we saw the defense get really good as we were using constraints to shape that, naturally the offense responded.

Yeah. And I don't know if it's as relevant, but just developing the players as targets, pickers, converters as well.

Oh, that's a great point. Talk about that, George, because I don't— I think we haven't spoken about that on the podcast yet.

Yeah. And it was after the initial start of the season, we would identify our— who are the best, you know, playmakers, passers on the team. That became our target players. And then who are the best pickers? Usually the, you know, the taller, stronger girls.

And then who are the best converters? Who can put the ball in the basket? Who can, you know, read the defense, make the ghost cut if it's there, push-pull, play off-ball like that. And I think what you saw is the girls that were the pickers and the girls that were the converters and the targets, they developed at such a faster rate just by getting those reps day in and day out at practice.

Right.

Instead of putting them in a system where maybe, you know, the target player is getting 2 reps per quarter or, you know, whatever the case may be. Whereas now they're getting 2 reps in a game, in a real game, they're getting 2 reps as the target, or sorry, 20 reps as a target per quarter.

And then same for the picker, getting those pickers coming in at a crack angle and then slipping if it's a switch or holding, you know, a bit longer if it's a more conservative coverage. So it was— that was super helpful.

Agreed. And I think that was an interesting one. We were fortunate because we had 3 girls who were 6'2 plus, and it was very obvious that they were quite new to basketball. So we wanted to just have them as pickers because if they could just learn some pick and roll and just catch on a roll and finish, that was huge.

And it was a way to involve them and get them touches. They want, you know— but I think for the coaches listening, if you have, you know, of course if you have players, you might have Your tallest players who are the best advantage creators out of triggers, you know, or maybe they're the best prospects long term.

Make them the targets, right? If you think that they can play that position long term, absolutely. And how we phrase it to the players is we said, even if you're not a target player, it's nothing to do with the best player. It's about putting you in the roles to be the most successful.

So you might be our top scorer playing as a converter because you're the best shooter and you're the best player at attacking closeouts. So I think just having that conversation, of course, you might have players who are multiple roles. But I think it was great just because it gave more structure to the conceptual offense.

It gave the girls more clarity. And in practice, we were able to, when we did breakdowns, like you'd take one group, sometimes one and I'd take the other, it was really easy to create focused activities based on what they were doing in the game.

And then just to add as well to that, if you go transition offense, we would have players that were our converters or our pickers, but they would rebound and then bust out dribble and create advantages like that. So it wasn't always like, oh, give the ball to the target player.

But it was more so like in the half court when we're neutral and they recognize that we're in neutral, we give it to the targets.

That's a great point. And Adam, we didn't do that in Italy, but I think that's one thing I wish I did because it naturally happened where, you know, Linus and Jamie as the guards got a ton of the reps. But I still think, you know, it's like creating and triggers at the end of the day, it's not for everyone.

So it's good. It's worth having that conversation, I think, if you're a head coach of your team.

Yeah, I guess my curiosity, and George, I mean, throughout the conversation you guys answered many of the questions that I had throughout, but I guess would be Like, would the converter, the picker, and the target player— were those distributed as well in practice?

Whereas like, no, no, we're— target players are the only ones getting reps here?

No, it was a mix. But then sometimes when we'd get to a particular activity, we'd say, now we're going target. So we want everyone to develop, you know, in this like 2-on-2 wall pick and roll.

That was my guess. Yeah, once it gets out to more 5-on-5, 4v4 stuff, it's like, no, no, now we're in.

Exactly. And, you know, sometimes I remember one game where I just felt like we actually needed to really polish it up because I didn't think our pickers were attuned to where their screener was. So they weren't actually getting the difference between, oh, they're in a really soft switch, so we can treat it as a drop, versus a proper switch.

So what we did then was in the 2-on-2, we still constrained it. So I think it really depends on maybe what you're seeing in the games. But you can't just— to your point, Adam, you've got to give them some activities where they're doing everything because for their development, it's—

Yeah.

If a bigger player is coming off and making a pocket pass, well, that's going to translate to something else that they're doing, like maybe catching in the roll in a game and passing over a low help defender or whatever.

Yeah, and learning, right? Because if you're a picker able to play that target player role, you can learn, oh, like, this is how I want the pass made to me, or, you know, whatever the case may be, and vice versa.

George, my next question for you, just changing topic a little bit from conceptual offense, maybe we come back to it, but what do you think were the best things were from our time at the Lions you know, you'd want to introduce if you were running another academy in Europe or elsewhere?

I think coach development is key. I think that that should be like everywhere, that should be a thing, and people should be really focused on developing their coaches because obviously you want to create great players and everyone wants to, you know, coach players that make it to the NBA or play professional or whatever the case may be.

And, you know, I think this has been said multiple times on the podcast, you know, you're just not gonna that for the majority of players that you coach, they're not going to play professional, but they're going to have jobs and they're going to be people in society.

So it's super important not only that we have coaches that know the game, understand principles of play, whatever it is, but more importantly, they're transformational coaches and they help the players grow in life and contribute to society and just be, you know, great people that know how to communicate with each other.

So I think coach development for that aspect, being able to transform the life of a child that starts in sports and continues on their journey, whether it's a different sport or a different career path or whatever. They do make it. They do make it to a professional level.

How do they handle themselves? I think it's so important, coach development. And then I think the coaching— well, that's part of the coaching development. I was going to say the workshops. I think those are just fun. They were awesome. It was great to spend time with your colleagues.

So that would go in there. And I think having the liberty, the freedom to try different things at practice. I feel like obviously considering the players and like you don't want to go overboard and be like, oh, I'm taking their time so I can practice what I want to practice as a coach.

But it's not like that. But having the liberty where like I want to make you as great as possible as a player and a person. But at practice, I also want to try some new things that, you know, are going to be weird.

They're going to be different. But you might, it might really work or it might not. And we just move on from it. But, you know, having that liberty, I think is key to like a safe zone. To practice and get better for both players and coaches.

I mean, having that discussion explicitly with the players, I think that they open right up to it once you actually have that kind of discussion where it's like, hey guys, like, this is me. I'm gonna try stuff. It may not always work, but I want you guys to do the same.

And you being vulnerable and willing to admit that allows them the capability of, oh, I'm willing to explore and try some stuff myself.

If he—

if this is my leader and he's willing to do this and try this, And then I'm willing to as well.

Yeah. And I think being able to— when we started the Lions, when we were— not when we started, but when we were there at the start, we really told the players about the CLA, how we're going to do things. It might be a little bit different for them to be open-minded.

And I think that was great for them as well.

And the parents.

Yeah, the whole presentation to them. Yeah.

And the parents, because they would come and they would watch practices, especially for the younger age groups, and they would be like, oh, this is different. But their children are having so much fun. They're developing their leadership voice. They're learning to communicate with each other in a way that's constructive and not destructive.

So I think it was invaluable experience for those players, but also for the parents to see their children learn those life skills.

And George, it's pretty funny because, you know, obviously I like keeping these episodes pretty punchy and short. So I'll let Adam ask one last question after this, but I don't think I've ever said why. People listening to this are probably like, if the London Lions sounded so amazing, why is everyone not still there?

And I don't think we ever addressed it on a podcast, but essentially our ownership ran out of money. So unfortunately, it happens in the European basketball. They're heavily committed to— they're an American investment fund heavily committed to a bunch of different soccer clubs, football teams in Europe, and the cash just stopped coming through.

So that was kind of the end of the dream project and why Vanya, myself, George, Liam, Will Twig, why we're all doing different things now. But I love that you hit on transformational coaching, and I think by the time this episode is out, George, you'll have done your masterclass in the membership community on the just practical applications of how you can be transformational, what that actually looks like in your practice and in your program.

So yeah, I'm really looking forward to watching that.

Yeah, no, I'm looking forward to it as well.

Yeah, I guess my final question is more for the listeners and more than anything else, and that is, what are your plans for the podcast, George? How do you plan on transforming Transforming Basketball Podcast?

I don't know. I mean, I think it comes natural, the passion and the love for not only basketball, but for learning about basketball. And I think it's like, I don't know if obligation is the right word, but it's almost like a— Joe Mazzulla said this— I get, like, I get to give back to the game that has given me so much.

So I think being part of this podcast is a way for me not only to obviously give back and ask the best possible questions I can. It's like I always say, the quality of your life will depend on the quality of your questions.

And I think hopefully I can ask those questions to the guests because, you know, I compared to the people that are on this podcast and share their wisdom and their knowledge and their experiences. You know, I don't know as much as they do.

I don't have as much experience as they do. But hopefully I can ask the questions that will help other coaches listening and everyone tuning into the podcast and help them grow and help them learn and help them also, you know, inspire to share and grow the game of basketball.

Because I think that's what it's about, just growing the game as much as we can.

I think that's a really sincere answer, George. And honestly, it's why I picked you for this, because it's very difficult finding people nowadays with complete growth mindset. And I think Within the Transforming community, that's kind of every coach that's drawn to us has that same mindset.

So I think it's going to be great for coaches to kind of continue to see your development growing through the podcast. But I think it's, it's great. We've already got this whole kind of list of all the guests we're asking for the next like 4 months, and you've already like shown me all the research you've done on them, all the questions you've asked.

And I think that's what's going to keep taking the Transforming podcast to new heights, you know. Can we keep getting on great guests, really interesting guests. But then how can we keep, you know, as I did at the start, as Adam's done a great job the last few months, how can we really keep asking the questions that coaches want to hear so they can practically apply the stuff?

Because I think, like we always said, you know, we want coaches to listen to every episode leaving with tangible takeaways that they can apply immediately. We don't want them tuning into a podcast to listen to someone's life story for 40 minutes and then not get anything.

And that's kind of why I stopped listening really to podcasts.

And it's—

I wanted this to be the podcast I wanted to listen to. And, you know, it's like, Adam, on all the flights I've been taking across the US, it's been great because I've been tuning into every episode, learning great stuff. And it's going to be the same with you, George.

And I think that's our— yeah, that's our commitment to the audience. You know that when you tune in, it's going to be short, action-oriented, but you always know you're going to have something that you can apply immediately.

That last episode you did, Adam, with Alan— what was his name? Oh man, that one was brilliant, man. I really enjoyed listening to him talk and the conversation you guys You said it, man.

Quality of your life depends on the quality of the questions you ask.

Put it on a t-shirt.

That was easy with that one.

Guys, thanks so much for joining. I think this is a really nice authentic conversation. And the next episode of this, it's going to be all down to you, George. So excited to tune in and see it. We've got a really, really good first guest planned.

So guys, thank you. And until next time.

Take care.

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